Date sent:                Wed, 17 Jun 1998 02:16:19 -0400
From:                     
 "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)"              <LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject:               File: "DATABASE OUTPUT"
To:                         Allen Dick
> SEARCH 'neem' IN BEE-L -
> FROM 1-Jan-90 TO 31-Dec-98
--> Database BEE-L, 31 hits.
> INDEX
Item #   Date   Time  Recs   Subject
------   ----   ----  ----   -------
003176 94/10/03 20:37   47   Re: Margosan-O
003185 94/10/03 23:47   25   Re: Margosan-O
004186 95/04/04 08:28   24   Natural products for the control of varroa
004191 95/04/04 13:36   50   Re: Natural products for the control of varroa
004328 95/04/19 21:14   20   Re: Any more progress on a control for chalkbrood?
004392 95/04/24 11:22   39   summary of comments Re: chalkbrood control
004762 95/05/19 21:04   18   Re: Formic Acid & varroa
004889 95/06/01 23:18   20   Neem: safe for bees??
004893 95/06/02 22:31   28   Re: Neem: safe for bees??
004895 95/06/02 22:59   17   Re: Neem: safe for bees??
006108 95/10/04 09:20   55   Tri-State Conference, Oct. 5-7. Ridpath Hotel, Spo+
006493 95/11/21 18:06   21   Re: Mite Solution
007725 96/03/17 10:10   65   Re: Diazinon
008552 96/05/01 07:20  188   NEED BEANs Save the BEES
008561 96/05/01 18:42   20   neemazad???
008562 96/05/01 19:33   27   neemazad???
008564 96/05/02 06:00   42   neemazad???
008627 96/05/06 22:28  193   Re: NEED BEANs Save the BEES
008630 96/05/06 22:20   26   NEED BEANS
010467 96/08/29 15:42  167   Essential Oils- Wax
014885 97/04/10 12:09   22   Experimental Mite Treatments
014952 97/04/13 22:04   38   Re: Experimental Mite Treatments
015041 97/04/16 16:59   48   Re : Neem Oil
016166 97/06/05 10:58   33   Re: Vespa crabro- results (one) niet voor mij ?
020853 98/02/16 12:15 5296   ESA "Ecological Services Provided to Humans by Nat+
023381 98/06/16 11:05   18   Neem tree
023385 98/06/16 22:21   16   Neem Tree
023388 98/06/16 18:11   74   Re: Neem Tree
023391 98/06/16 22:45   19   Re: Neem Tree
023393 98/06/16 23:48   55   Re: Neem tree
023396 98/06/16 21:00   35   Re: Neem Tree
> PRINT
>>> Item number 3176, dated 94/10/03 20:37:27 -- ALL
Date:         Mon, 3 Oct 1994 20:37:27 -0700
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
From:         Phil Soderman <sgrower1@RAIN.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Margosan-O
In-Reply-To:  <9410040113.AA17201@coyote.rain.org>
From the book NEEM A tree for solving global problems, published by
National Academy Press.
Page 100, Margosan-O is an ethanolic neem extract concentrate having
3,000 ppm azadirachtin (+-10 percent) and is baed on the original process
developed by the U.S. Deptartment of Agriculture(USDA) in Beltsville,
Maryland.
While I did not find any reference IN THIS BOOK to control of the listed
Bee diseases, there are numerous references to Neem extracts (not
necessarily azadirachtin) controlling bacteria and fungal species.
Page 103 under Test 13-Bee Adult Toxicity Test.  With the assistance of
the University of California's Apiry at Riverside, California, Vikwood,
Ltd. Ordered a "Bee Adult Toxicity Test" on honeybee worker adults.
Margosan-O was administered as a direct contact chemical using field
dosages up to 4,478 ppm A.I./ha. It was found to be benign to honeybees
at well above the recommended dosage of 20 ppm (diluted, as a foliar
spray) for a common pest, the gypsy moth, Lymantria dispar (L.).
 My comment is that this material works on the younger instars of various
insects and may not have had any effect on Adult Bees but what about
brood if you treated a hive for disease or mites.
Page 14 Three new neem based products-Azatin, Turplex, and Align- have
entered the U.S. insecticide market.  The U.S. EPA has approved Align
for use on food and feed crops. Margosan-O is now registered in all 50
states and the EPA has approved it for use on food crops.
 I found no other Bee related sections in this book. There are many references c
ited so further research is necessary.
Phil Soderman sgrower1@rain.org
On Tue, 4 Oct 1994, Robert Rice wrote:
> Can anyone give me details about a product available through
> garden supply shops called Margosan-O. I would like to know what
> the composition of this material is.  I believe that it is
> suppose to control nosema and chalk brood and is a natural
> extract from a tree.
>
> Robert Rice
> CSIRO Division of Entomology
> Canberra, Australia.
>
> E-mail  robertr@ento.csiro.au
>
>>> Item number 3185, dated 94/10/03 23:47:35 -- ALL
Date:         Mon, 3 Oct 1994 23:47:35 PDT
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
From:         Sharon Collman <COLLMANS@WSUVM1.BITNET>
Organization: WSU CAHE USER
Subject:      Re: Margosan-O
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue,
              4 Oct 1994 11:13:50 +1000 from <robertr@ENTO.CSIRO.AU>
Margosan-O is a product of the Neem tree.
It is a pesticide and should be used as instructed on the label.  It is
still being tested here for outdoor pests.  I don't know if it is labeled
for use in bee colonies.  I will try to get better info, unless someone
answers before I find out.
SHARON J. COLLMAN
W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION
URBAN IPM RESOURCE CENTER
@ CENTER FOR URBAN HORTICULTURE
UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON   GF-15
SEATTLE, WA  98195
PHONE: 206-543-8616
E-MAIL COLLMANS@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU
>>> Item number 4186, dated 95/04/04 08:28:28 -- ALL
Date:         Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:28:28 GMT
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
From:         "DR ANDY EVANS , SAC EDINBURGH" <esa041@ED.SAC.AC.UK>
Subject:      Natural products for the control of varroa
If this subject has been discussed on Bee-L already, then apologies but I'm new
to this list so any info would be useful.
Is there anybody working on, or has knowledge of research into natural products
for the control of varroa mites. e.g. any work using neem or azadirachtin for
example.
Any info would be welcome as would responses from anybody interested in doing
this sort of research.
Dr Andy Evans
SAC,
West Mains Road,
Edinburgh
UK
Tel +44 131 667 1041
Fax +44 131 667 2601
Email ESA041@ed.sac.ac.uk
>>> Item number 4191, dated 95/04/04 13:36:16 -- ALL
Date:         Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:36:16 +0100
Reply-To:     IBRA@cardiff.ac.uk
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
From:         Dr Pamela Munn <sabpam@THOR.CF.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Natural products for the control of varroa
In-Reply-To:  <no.id> from "DR ANDY EVANS , SAC EDINBURGH" at Apr 4,
              95 08:28:28 am
IBRA has recently published a book called New perspectives on varroa
which covers bio- and non-chemical control as well as other issues such
as resistance to chemicals, breeding toleratnt bees etc.
If you are interested contact me directly at IBRA:
 ibra@cardiff.ac.uk
> If this subject has been discussed on Bee-L already, then apologies but I'm
 new
> to this list so any info would be useful.
> Is there anybody working on, or has knowledge of research into natural
 products
> for the control of varroa mites. e.g. any work using neem or azadirachtin for
> example.
>
> Any info would be welcome as would responses from anybody interested in doing
> this sort of research.
>
> Dr Andy Evans
> SAC,
> West Mains Road,
> Edinburgh
> UK
>
> Tel +44 131 667 1041
> Fax +44 131 667 2601
> Email ESA041@ed.sac.ac.uk
>

  **************************************************************
  *  Dr Pamela Munn                                           *
  *  Editor of Bee World, Associate Editor of J. Apic. Res.    *
  *============================================================*
  *  E.mail  :  IBRA@Cardiff.AC.UK   | Mail : IBRA             *
  *  Phone   :  (+44) 1222 372 409   |        18 North Road    *
  *  Fax     :  (+44) 1222 665 522   |        Cardiff CF1 3DY  *
  *                                  |        UK               *
  *============================================================*
  * If your mail is for someone else in IBRA I will pass it on *
  **************************************************************
>>> Item number 4328, dated 95/04/19 21:14:29 -- ALL
Date:         Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:14:29 -0800
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
From:         Mark Jensen <mjensen@CRL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Any more progress on a control for chalkbrood?
>Browsing thru the August '91 issue of ABJ, there was an article by
>T.P.Liu (Alberta,Ca) regarding a possible control for chalkbrood. Benomyl
>(Dupont's trade name is Benlate) is supposed to have some effect in
>control. Any more on this?
>
>Jerry Worrell, Dunkirk,MD
The March issue of the American Bee Journal has an article by the same
author on the possible use of Neem (Margosan) for the control of Chalkbrood
and Nosema. In the article, there is a source for Margosan and method of
application (sugar syrup). I sure would like to find an effective control
for chalkbrood. It makes pollen cleaning a real pain.
Mark Jensen   mjensen@crl.com
>>> Item number 4392, dated 95/04/24 11:22:23 -- ALL
Date:         Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:22:23 -0400
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
From:         Gerard Worrell <worrell@CBL.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      summary of comments Re: chalkbrood control
In-Reply-To:  <39BA1DE7C13@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us>
On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, BLANE WHITE wrote:
> Hi Gerard,
> There is an ongoing effort to get some new materials registered for
> varroa control and at present this has priority over chalkbrood.
> Neem extract is one possible control being looked at and may help
> with chalkbrood and nosema as well as varroa but much basic work
> needs to be done.  These botanicals are much easier to get EPA
> approval for so maybe we will have some more options soon as you know
> we really do need them.
> Blane
>
> Blane White
> State Apiary Inspector
> Minnesota Department of Agriculture
> bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us
> ********************************************
>
Second message from Blane: There is ongoing efforts to get some other
materials registered for varroa control that have priority over
chalkbrood. Neem extract is one. Botanicals are easier to get EPA
registration
Paul van Westendorp suggested I contact Dr. Liu directly at:
lius@abrsbl.agr.ca
Mark Jensen replied: Article by the same author in Mar issue of ABJ on
use of Neem (Margosan) for chalkbrood and nosema.
Thanks for the comments.
Jerry Worrell, Dunkirk,MD
worrell@cbl.umd.edu
>>> Item number 4762, dated 95/05/19 21:04:51 -- ALL
Date:         Fri, 19 May 1995 21:04:51 -0800
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
From:         Mark Jensen <mjensen@CRL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Formic Acid & varroa
>Or have
>someone of you any reliable method hov to controle this disease?
Hi, Vladimir. Our American Bee Journal had an article by Dr Steve Liu
(lius@abrsbl.agr.ca) on the use of Margosan (an extract of the neem tree)
for control of chalkbrood. I bought a quart and have played around with
feeding in sugar syrup according to his instructions. I have not determined
if it works or not yet. You should be able to contact him at the e-mail
address. Let me know what you find out. Thanks.
Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries           mjensen@crl.com
Los Altos Hills, CA, USA                     fax 415 941 3488
>>> Item number 4889, dated 95/06/01 23:18:50 -- ALL
Date:         Thu, 1 Jun 1995 23:18:50 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" <lday@INDY.NET>
Subject:      Neem: safe for bees??
Comments: To: bombus@csi.uottawa.ca
I have just applied 'Neem' insecticide to a large number of Rugosa and
climbing roses that are being used by bumblebees for pollen.   The label
said 'safe for honeybees'.  The roses are being chewed to nothing by
sawfly larvae  (horrible things - how a  hymenopteran stoop to such
disgusting pursuits?).
Do any of the beekeepers have any experience with this chemical?
If the bumblebees collect Neem-loaded pollen and take it home, will
it hurt them?
Liz Day
LDAY@indy.net
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
Now on at 14400 baud!!!!!
>>> Item number 4893, dated 95/06/02 22:31:32 -- ALL
Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 1995 22:31:32 +1030
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Jean-Pierre Chapleau <chapleau@SCUZZY.FMMO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Neem: safe for bees??
In-Reply-To:  <199506020418.XAA04331@indy3.indy.net>
On Thu, 1 Jun 1995, La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day) wrote:
> I have just applied 'Neem' insecticide to a large number of Rugosa and
> climbing roses that are being used by bumblebees for pollen.   The label
> said 'safe for honeybees'.(...)
>
> Do any of the beekeepers have any experience with this chemical?
(...)
I imagine neem is safe for the bees.  Doctor Liu from Agriculture Canada
was to conduct a research on neem extract as a potential control agent
against mites and other bee diseases. I think that the project was
supposed to take place this summer.
 _______________________________               ~
|_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______|       ~       bee breeder
  |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,|              ~
  | Quebec,  Canada,  J0A 1C0 |  vice president of the Canadian Honey Council
  |  phone:   (819) 828-3396  |   ~           ~
  |  fax:     (819) 828-0357  |   ~    ~
  |  chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca  |     ~      ~
  |______________________________~    ~
>>> Item number 4895, dated 95/06/02 22:59:20 -- ALL
Date:         Fri, 2 Jun 1995 22:59:20 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" <lday@INDY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Neem: safe for bees??
Yes, apparently the Neem was actually FED to the bees, but they were
OK anyway.
PHEW.
Except that 24 hours after application, I see that the target sawfly
larvae are not only alive but still EATING.  I am beginning to feel
violent.  These creatures will eat the world alive!
Liz Day
LDAY@indy.net
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
>>> Item number 6108, dated 95/10/04 09:20:20 -- ALL
Date:         Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:20:20 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Jerry J Bromenshenk <jjbmail@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
Subject:      Tri-State Conference, Oct. 5-7. Ridpath Hotel, Spokane, WA
Hi:
I have been asked to provide more information about the Spokane
beekeeping meeting of the Idaho, Oregon, and Washington Beekeepers.
If you wish to attend and haven't received notice of the meeting, they
encourage new members.  Contact Walt Peterson, 509-926-1188, 6603 S.
Conklin, Green Acres, WA  99016.   Walt says they need more members and
would be delighted to see some new faces.  However, he would like you to
call him and say you are coming so he can make adjustments in terms of
the Banquet reservations.
Ok, a quick summary of the agenda.  Registration is Thursday evening at
7, followed by a Mead, Wine, and Cheese social.
Friday:
7       Breakfast and Registration (wear badge)
8:30    Welcome
8:45    Where is Apiculture Headed - Jim Bach
9:15    What Have We Learned about Varroa Mites - Tom Rinderer
10:15   Refreshments
10:30   Honey Bee Repellants - Dan Mayer
11:15   Genetic Heritage of Honey Bees ...Future for Breeding - Walt Sheppard
12      Lunch
1:15    What is Going on at Carl Hayden Bee Lab - Eric Erickson
2:00    Beekeeping in Thialand - Mike Burgett
2:45    Beekeeping Trends ... From North of the Border - Paul Van Westenberg
3:30    State Business Meetings - Idaho, Washington, Oregon
5       Social Hour
6       Banquet
7       Auction
Saturday
7       Breakfast
8       NEEM to Treat Colonies - T.P. Liu
9       What's New with Mites in NW - Mike Burgett
10      Break
10:15   Using State of the Art Technology ... - Jerry Bromenshenk
11:15   The Packers Role and Concerns - Don Griggs
12      Lunch (on your own)
1:15    American Beekeeping Federation Program - Lee Heine
2       National Honey Board Goings On - Carl VanWechel
3       Beekeeping in Egypt - Jim Bach
"I shortened titles of talks and dropped all of the Drs, to keep this
shorter - JJB"
>>> Item number 6493, dated 95/11/21 18:06:02 -- ALL
Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:06:02 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         David Eyre <beeworks@MUSKOKA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Mite Solution
>Again, I find an article advertisement in our local beekeepers newsletter
>touting the product "Mite Solution".
>
>This time there are some details:  it contains petroleum jelly, some
>"NATURAL BOTANICAL EXTRACT" , and is applied on mouse guards or queen
Beaverlodge, Alberta, have been doing some work on Neem, a natural miticide,
from a tree extract, studies are ongoing. Could this be it?  This sounds too
good to be true, but let's keep an open mind!!
   ************************************************************
   * David J. Eyre CEO    9, Progress Drive, Unit 2,     *
   * The Beeworks        Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 *
   * beeworks@muskoka.net    (705) 326 7171           *
   * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks                     *
   *************************************************************
>>> Item number 7725, dated 96/03/17 10:10:26 -- ALL
Date:         Sun, 17 Mar 1996 10:10:26 -0800
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Adony Melathopoulos <melathop@SFU.CA>
Subject:      Re: Diazinon
In-Reply-To:  <199603161751.MAA08526@smarty.smart.net>
On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, Laura A. Downey wrote:
> I have root maggots in my vegetable garden which I will be treating with
> something that is safe to my honeybees.  At the garden store today, they
> recommended Diazinon.
As far as organophorphorous insecticides go, diazinon is one of the more
harmful compounds to honey bees.  The reason is not so much that it is
extremely toxic to bees (which it is, but so are a number of other safer
compounds), but that it remains hazardous for weeks after application
(while other insecticides loose a considerable amount of their toxicity
overnight).
> I told them that I had honey bees and was given the
> answer "Diazinon is put in the soil, you shouldn't have any problems."  I
> have a feeling that I shouldn't use it.  My bee hives are very close to the
> garden.
It all depends how and when it is applied.  Pesticides are not toxic to
honey bees when they are sprayed on areas that do not contain attractive
blooms.  Diazinon is commonly used to treat root maggots, I think
you can buy both an emulsifiable concentrate (EC) and granular (G)
formulations for this purpose, and is either applied using soil drench or
furrow treatments.  I think furrow treatments (where you apply granules
of Diazinon with the seed at the time of seeding) will pose no threat to
your bees.  I'm not sure about soil drench applications, but I suspect
they are safe too, but i'm not as sure.
> I want to get rid of these pests without harming my bees and without using
> chemicals.  I'd much prefer to use something natural.  I would like to know
> if Diazinon is safe to use around honey bees.  I can use nematodes, which is
> natural, and safe for the bees.  But, in order to appease my husband who is
> just about willing to use anything to get rid of the pests, I'd like to get
> some strong information against using the Diazinon.
Sorry I didn't gave you a mixed bag of advice.  I'm sure there are plenty of
organic ways to deal with root pests, especially on a small scale such as a
garden. I don't know too much about controls available for such pests,
but i'm sure there are safer ways to deal with your problem. Nematodes sound
like they would work.  Check into diatomaceous earth, neem (Margosan-O or
Align), or alternative tillage practices with a good gardening club, or shop.
Good luck,
Adony
****************************************
*** Adony Melathopoulos ****************
***** Center for Pest Management *******
******** Simon Fraser University *******
*********** Burnaby, British Coumbia ***
************** CANADA ******************
****************************************
'All bees are looking for bargins in nature's supermarket'
- Bernd Heinrich
e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca
tel : (604) 29 14 16 3
>>> Item number 8552, dated 96/05/01 07:20:00 -- ALL
Date:         Wed, 1 May 1996 07:20:00 GMT
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Andy Nachbaur <andy.nachbaur@beenet.com>
Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA
Subject:      NEED BEANs Save the BEES
BEANS, beans the musical fruit comes in time of need to the
keepers of bees! Or is it all just passing gas?
l l This l l post l l is l l a l l follow up!
California....
  Beekeeper's here are experimenting with a chemical product they
mix with sugar syrup at ratio's of 300 gallons sugar to 2 quarts
product and feed it to the bees in early spring to kill varroa mites.
The product sells for about $50. a gallon and is 0.25% Azadirachtin
(active ingredient).
  Have you heard anything about this product made by GRACE and sold
as NEEMAZAD 0.28 EC?
************************Follow UP***********************
  NORTHERN AGRICULTURE RESEARCH CENTRE
   Frangais (this is English)
Research Branch
Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada
P.O. Box 29
Beaverlodge, Alberta
T0H 0C0
Tel.           (403) 354-2212
Fax            (403) 354-8171
EM             OTTB::EM380MAIL
Internet       EM380MAIL@ABRSBL.AGR.CA
Apiculture pathology                         T.P. Liu, Ph.D.
Apiculture (seconded out)                    T.I. Szabo, Ph.D.
   The Northern Agriculture Research Centre (NARC) improves production
   systems for crops, honey bees, and other pollinating insects adapted
   to environmental conditions in northwestern Canada. It also develops
   technology for managing the soil, water, and climatic resources of the
   region, for a productive and sustainable agricultural industry. The
   centre has breeding programs in canola, wheat, and honey bees. Our
   major crops are
     * cereal grains
     * pulse crops
     * forage seed production
     * oilseeds.
   The Fort Vermilion field site develops crop management systems for
   oilseeds, cereals, and pulse crops.
    Achievements
        l l This l l looks l l real l l good l l .....
   Controlling chalkbrood disease of honeybees It's an environmentalist's
   dream: a natural pesticide found in the seeds of the neem, one of the
   most common trees in India and Burma. Neem extract controls diseases
   and pests of crops, yet leaves pollinating insects and mammals
   unharmed. Neem extract was tested and results showed that treated
   colonies had 350% less chalkbrood and 100% less nosema than control
   colonies. Treated colonies also collected 3.5 times more pollen and
   produced 1.5 times more honey.
----------------------------------OLd Drone Comments--------------------
The Honey Producer in me says:
*WOW 1 and 1/2 more honey, up the mites, we all should be feeding
 this chemical and get the increase in honey production, have cleaner
 bees, and any residue in the honey will cure MS along with a few
 bee stings in the right places.........after all its a natural poison.
AND The farmer Almond grower who pays me says:
**HOT DOG, up the mites, up the honey, up the bee keepers, collecting
 3.5x the pollen, HOT DOG! How much of this stuff do you need..
_________________________end of comment-------------------------------
   Biological control of tracheal mites in the honey bee Breeding honey
   bees that are resistant to tracheal mites is the most desirable
   approach to reducing the damage caused by infestations of this pest.
   Biological control of tracheal mite infestation may be another
   attractive alternative. A DNA virus has been found in tracheal mites
   taken from honey bees. When this virus was introduced into
   mite-infected colonies, the infestation level decreased from 23.7% to
   5.2% within 2 months.
-------------------------More added-------------------------------
** I must add to this that without looking at what exactly happened
   in the controls in this piece of work one must remember that the
   tracheal mites are infamous for spontaneous remission in numbers
   of mites making it very hard to derive reliable information or
   control stratagems. It may be that this virus is present and is
   naturally triggered by some environmental input that may or may
   not be controlled.
-------------------------end of off the wall comments--------------
   NARC has a staff of 50 full-time equivalents, with 16 in the
   professional categories. The center controls 390 ha of land at two
   sites and rents about 35 ha of land a year for research. In addition,
   NARC manages the Fort Vermilion field site, which owns 187 ha of land
   and rents about 3 ha of land for research. Operation is on a growing
   season basis only.
   NARC manages a budget of $3.3 million. It has a 12-person advisory
   committee consisting of farmers and provincial and university leaders.
   The centre supplements its resources by receiving funds from outside
   agencies, including the provinces, producer groups, and agri-business.
    Research Publications
   Fairey, D.T. 1993. Pollination of Trifolium hybridum by Megachile
   rotundata. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:34-38.
   Fairey, D.T. 1993. Pollination and seed set in herbage species: a
   review of limiting factors. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:6-12.
   Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1993. Bombus and other bee pollinators
   in Trifolium hybridum seed fields. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:87~-89.
   Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1993. Arrangement of new and used
   nesting materials in leafcutting bee, Megachile rotundata (F.),
   shelters to maximize cell production. J. Appl. Entomol. 115:62-65.
   Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1994. Collection of leaf pieces by
   Megachile rotundata: proportion used in nesting. Bee Sci. 3(2):79-85.
   Fairey, N.A.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1994. Herbage production as influenced
   by stand arrangement, nitrogen fertility and supplemental water. Can.
   J. Plant Sci. 74:115-120.
   Grant, G.A.; Nelson, D.L.; Olsen, P.E.; Rice, W.A. 1993. The ~ Elisa"
   detection of tracheal mites in whole honey bee samples. Am. Bee J.
   133:652-655.
   Li, M.; Nelson, D.L.; Sporns, P. 1993. Determination of menthol in
   honey by gas chromatography. J. AOAC Int. 76(6):1289-1295.
   Liu, T.P.; Chu, L.T.Y.; Sporns, P. 1993. Formic acid residues in honey
   in relation to application rate and timing of formic acid for control
   of tracheal mites, Acarapis woodi (Rennie). Am. Bee J. 133:71-721.
   Liu, T.P.; McRory, D. 1994. The use of gamma radiation from Cobalt-60
   in a commercial facility in Ontario to disinfect honey bee equipment.
   1. American foulbrood disease. Am. Bee J. 134:203-206.
   Liu, T.P.; Nasr, M.E. 1993. Preventive treatment of tracheal mites,
   Acarapis woodi (Rennie) with vegetable oil extender patties in the
   honeybee, Apis mellifera L. colonies. Am. Bee J. 134:873~-875.
   Mills, P.F. 1994. The agricultural potential of northwestern Canada
   and Alaska and the impact of climatic change. Arctic 47(2):115-123.
   Nelson, D.; Sporns, P.; Kristiansen, P.; Mills, P. 1993. Effectiveness
   and residue levels of 3 methods of menthol application to honey bee
   colonies for the control of tracheal mites. Apidologie 24:549-556.
   Szabo, T.I. 1993. Brood rearing in outdoor wintered honey bee
   colonies. Am. Bee J. 133(8):579-580.
   Szabo, T.I. 1993. Length of life of queens in honey bee colonies. Am.
   Bee J. 133(10):723-724.
   Szabo, T.I. 1993. Selective breeding of honey bees for resistanct to
   Varroa jacobsoni. Am. Bee J. 133:868; Can. Beekeep. 17(10):222.
*Ripped off the Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada web page, edited to
 save band width.
                      ttul OLd Drone
(c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document
in any form, or to print for any use.
(w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk.
Not a invitation to use or an endorsement of any product
legal or not legal.
---
 ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ What is not good for the swarm is not good for the bee!
>>> Item number 8561, dated 96/05/01 18:42:26 -- ALL
Date:         Wed, 1 May 1996 18:42:26 -0700
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "Jeffrey R. Tooker" <jtooker@castles.com>
Subject:      neemazad???
Comments: cc: andy.nachbaur@beenet.com
Andy and all:
Try this I found it intresting.
                            http://terranet.ab.ca/narc-94.html#mites
More to follow.
Jeffrey
33600 Navion
Paynes Creek Ca. 96075
>>> Item number 8562, dated 96/05/01 19:33:35 -- ALL
Date:         Wed, 1 May 1996 19:33:35 -0700
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "Jeffrey R. Tooker" <jtooker@castles.com>
Subject:      neemazad???
Comments: cc: andy.nachbaur@beenet.com
Andy and all:
Try this I found it intresting.
      Use Alta Vista search engine and look up    "neem extract"
lots of good stuff comes up.  Andy on your Azadirachtin it is neem
extract as per
                     http://www.us.net/~steptoe/286830.htm
Later
Jeffrey
33600 Navion
Paynes Creek Ca. 96075
>>> Item number 8564, dated 96/05/02 06:00:00 -- ALL
Date:         Thu, 2 May 1996 06:00:00 GMT
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Andy Nachbaur <andy.nachbaur@beenet.com>
Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA
Subject:      neemazad???
>From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" <jtooker@castles.com>
>Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:33:35 -0700
>Subject: neemazad???
>      Use Alta Vista search engine and look up    "neem extract"
>lots of good stuff comes up.  Andy on your Azadirachtin it is neem
>extract as per
Yes, that is the same stuff, and those were good sites, maybe
you missed this one:
    ERIC MUSSEN
   ---------------
   Home Phone:
   (916) 758-4393           Give him a call and bend his ear!
   Job Title:
   Extension Apiculturist
   Job Description:
   University liaison to beekeepers and others interested in honey bees
   and pollination.
   Dedicated Time/Area of Activity:
   85% Extension
   15% Research
   Current Project(s):
   Controlling varroa with neem extract.
   l l  l l  l l  l l  l l  UC DAVIS, California USA
---
 ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... And where the bee with cowslip bells was wrestling.
>>> Item number 8627, dated 96/05/06 22:28:58 -- ALL
Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 22:28:58 -0300
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Stan Sandler <sandler@cycor.ca>
Subject:      Re: NEED BEANs Save the BEES
>BEANS, beans the musical fruit comes in time of need to the
>keepers of bees! Or is it all just passing gas?  <snip>
I gather from the ridicule that you poured out on the subject of neem
research and honeybees, that you do not have much use for the researchers or
their methods, Andy.  For all I know about the subject, and that is next to
nothing, you could be perfectly correct.  However, my curiosity was aroused,
and I wanted to get beyond the ridicule to obtain some facts about what the
experiments involved and what the results were.  However, when I send an
e-mail to the address that was given:
>Research Branch
>Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada
>P.O. Box 29
>Beaverlodge, Alberta
>T0H 0C0
>
>Tel.           (403) 354-2212
>Fax            (403) 354-8171
>EM             OTTB::EM380MAIL
>Internet       EM380MAIL@ABRSBL.AGR.CA  ---Here is where I mailed to
>
>Apiculture pathology                         T.P. Liu, Ph.D.
>Apiculture (seconded out)                    T.I. Szabo, Ph.D.
I got a return message (from Beaver Lodge, so that much was correct) saying
that there is no such mail address.
Does anyone know who is actually doing experiments on bees using neem and
what their address is?  It is a little bit unclear in your post whether
these are the people doing the research.  I don't think it was your
intention to encourage people to spend time investigating this!  :-)
Have a nice day      Stan




>
>
>   The Northern Agriculture Research Centre (NARC) improves production
>   systems for crops, honey bees, and other pollinating insects adapted
>   to environmental conditions in northwestern Canada. It also develops
>   technology for managing the soil, water, and climatic resources of the
>   region, for a productive and sustainable agricultural industry. The
>   centre has breeding programs in canola, wheat, and honey bees. Our
>   major crops are
>     * cereal grains
>     * pulse crops
>     * forage seed production
>     * oilseeds.
>
>   The Fort Vermilion field site develops crop management systems for
>   oilseeds, cereals, and pulse crops.
>
>    Achievements
>
>        l l This l l looks l l real l l good l l .....
>
>   Controlling chalkbrood disease of honeybees It's an environmentalist's
>   dream: a natural pesticide found in the seeds of the neem, one of the
>   most common trees in India and Burma. Neem extract controls diseases
>   and pests of crops, yet leaves pollinating insects and mammals
>   unharmed. Neem extract was tested and results showed that treated
>   colonies had 350% less chalkbrood and 100% less nosema than control
>   colonies. Treated colonies also collected 3.5 times more pollen and
>   produced 1.5 times more honey.
>
>----------------------------------OLd Drone Comments--------------------
>The Honey Producer in me says:
>
>*WOW 1 and 1/2 more honey, up the mites, we all should be feeding
> this chemical and get the increase in honey production, have cleaner
> bees, and any residue in the honey will cure MS along with a few
> bee stings in the right places.........after all its a natural poison.
>
>AND The farmer Almond grower who pays me says:
>
>**HOT DOG, up the mites, up the honey, up the bee keepers, collecting
> 3.5x the pollen, HOT DOG! How much of this stuff do you need..
>_________________________end of comment-------------------------------
>
>   Biological control of tracheal mites in the honey bee Breeding honey
>   bees that are resistant to tracheal mites is the most desirable
>   approach to reducing the damage caused by infestations of this pest.
>   Biological control of tracheal mite infestation may be another
>   attractive alternative. A DNA virus has been found in tracheal mites
>   taken from honey bees. When this virus was introduced into
>   mite-infected colonies, the infestation level decreased from 23.7% to
>   5.2% within 2 months.
>
>-------------------------More added-------------------------------
>
>** I must add to this that without looking at what exactly happened
>   in the controls in this piece of work one must remember that the
>   tracheal mites are infamous for spontaneous remission in numbers
>   of mites making it very hard to derive reliable information or
>   control stratagems. It may be that this virus is present and is
>   naturally triggered by some environmental input that may or may
>   not be controlled.
>-------------------------end of off the wall comments--------------
>
>   NARC has a staff of 50 full-time equivalents, with 16 in the
>   professional categories. The center controls 390 ha of land at two
>   sites and rents about 35 ha of land a year for research. In addition,
>   NARC manages the Fort Vermilion field site, which owns 187 ha of land
>   and rents about 3 ha of land for research. Operation is on a growing
>   season basis only.
>
>   NARC manages a budget of $3.3 million. It has a 12-person advisory
>   committee consisting of farmers and provincial and university leaders.
>   The centre supplements its resources by receiving funds from outside
>   agencies, including the provinces, producer groups, and agri-business.
>
>    Research Publications
>
>   Fairey, D.T. 1993. Pollination of Trifolium hybridum by Megachile
>   rotundata. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:34-38.
>
>   Fairey, D.T. 1993. Pollination and seed set in herbage species: a
>   review of limiting factors. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:6-12.
>
>   Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1993. Bombus and other bee pollinators
>   in Trifolium hybridum seed fields. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:87~-89.
>
>   Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1993. Arrangement of new and used
>   nesting materials in leafcutting bee, Megachile rotundata (F.),
>   shelters to maximize cell production. J. Appl. Entomol. 115:62-65.
>
>   Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1994. Collection of leaf pieces by
>   Megachile rotundata: proportion used in nesting. Bee Sci. 3(2):79-85.
>
>   Fairey, N.A.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1994. Herbage production as influenced
>   by stand arrangement, nitrogen fertility and supplemental water. Can.
>   J. Plant Sci. 74:115-120.
>
>   Grant, G.A.; Nelson, D.L.; Olsen, P.E.; Rice, W.A. 1993. The ~ Elisa"
>   detection of tracheal mites in whole honey bee samples. Am. Bee J.
>   133:652-655.
>
>   Li, M.; Nelson, D.L.; Sporns, P. 1993. Determination of menthol in
>   honey by gas chromatography. J. AOAC Int. 76(6):1289-1295.
>
>   Liu, T.P.; Chu, L.T.Y.; Sporns, P. 1993. Formic acid residues in honey
>   in relation to application rate and timing of formic acid for control
>   of tracheal mites, Acarapis woodi (Rennie). Am. Bee J. 133:71-721.
>
>   Liu, T.P.; McRory, D. 1994. The use of gamma radiation from Cobalt-60
>   in a commercial facility in Ontario to disinfect honey bee equipment.
>   1. American foulbrood disease. Am. Bee J. 134:203-206.
>
>   Liu, T.P.; Nasr, M.E. 1993. Preventive treatment of tracheal mites,
>   Acarapis woodi (Rennie) with vegetable oil extender patties in the
>   honeybee, Apis mellifera L. colonies. Am. Bee J. 134:873~-875.
>
>   Mills, P.F. 1994. The agricultural potential of northwestern Canada
>   and Alaska and the impact of climatic change. Arctic 47(2):115-123.
>
>   Nelson, D.; Sporns, P.; Kristiansen, P.; Mills, P. 1993. Effectiveness
>   and residue levels of 3 methods of menthol application to honey bee
>   colonies for the control of tracheal mites. Apidologie 24:549-556.
>
>   Szabo, T.I. 1993. Brood rearing in outdoor wintered honey bee
>   colonies. Am. Bee J. 133(8):579-580.
>
>   Szabo, T.I. 1993. Length of life of queens in honey bee colonies. Am.
>   Bee J. 133(10):723-724.
>
>   Szabo, T.I. 1993. Selective breeding of honey bees for resistanct to
>   Varroa jacobsoni. Am. Bee J. 133:868; Can. Beekeep. 17(10):222.
>
>*Ripped off the Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada web page, edited to
> save band width.
>                      ttul OLd Drone
>
>(c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document
>in any form, or to print for any use.
>
>(w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk.
>Not a invitation to use or an endorsement of any product
>legal or not legal.
>---
> ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ What is not good for the swarm is not good for the bee!
>
>
>>> Item number 8630, dated 96/05/06 22:20:43 -- ALL
Date:         Mon, 6 May 1996 22:20:43 -0700
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "Jeffrey R. Tooker" <jtooker@castles.com>
Subject:      NEED BEANS
Stan Standler and all:
Just checked my mail before going to bed, 5A.M. comes early.  The only
research I could find with neem and varroa is being done by:
Adony Melathopoulos <melathop@sfu.ca>
Or Eric Mussen at Davis California.
Eric Mussen <ecmussen@ucdavis.edu>
Will post a complete list of findings of neem net search tommorrow.
Later
Jeffrey
33600 Navion
Paynes Creek Ca. 96075
>>> Item number 10467, dated 96/08/29 15:42:00 -- ALL
Date:         Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:42:00 GMT
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Andy Nachbaur <andy.nachbaur@beenet.com>
Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA
Subject:      Essential Oils- Wax
D>From: djt@dolphin.upenn.edu (David J Trickett)
 >Subject: Essential Oils
D>I have been trying to get someone at EPA, USDA, or FDA to
 >confirm or deny that application of these treatments would render honey
 >illegal for sale.  No luck so far, but I'll keep calling.
Well Dave,
I can assure you that if natural chemicals end up in the honey in
detectable amounts not normally found it will be a problem and you need
not wait for any official answer.<G>
D>Assuming application of mint oils is effective against mites, it
 >would behoove us to obtain some sort of official sanction for its
 >implementation.  I assert this because these treatments appear to be
 >cheaper than apistan, and because use of apistan is (or will be) reducing
 >honey's standing as a "safe," "natural," semi-organic food. (I don't
 >care what the label says about no detectable residues resulting when used
 >properly.
Could bee if thymol, other E-Oils, or Neem products are used as
supplements to bee foods by the beekeeper the same as he uses sugar,
yeasts, soy products, veg'ee oils and there is no problems I would
expect that nothing need to be done in the way of regulation at the
beekeeper level. If you are into selling this stuff to your neighbors
you better have a approved label for the product you are selling and its
intended use. There is nothing wrong with adding say thymol to fortify a
bee protein diet as it has been used for years off and on for such
things in human, animal and insect diets and could be classified as
inert ingredients and not even disclosed as long as it does not end up
in the honey which would be the same with any of ingredients normally
fed to bees. If it protects the bees from disease, pests, or parasites
at the same time it fills their needs for fortified food that is a free
bonus of good nutrition and should not be regulated under any laws now
applicable that would only inflate the cost and alarm the public. None
of us know what feed goes into a cow to produce the milk we all consume
in one form or another. The dairyman does use regulated products, but
also is free to add what ever additional diet supplements he finds
beneficial to his herds diet to keep it disease free and does not have
to disclose them unless they start to show up in the milk. Honey
producers should expect no different treatment from regulators for the
food additives they add to their bee's diets as long as it does not show
up in the Honey and much of what we have fed is also found in other
animal diets.
Now if the same ingredients are to be used to treat a pest or disease
then thats a whole different ball game and you may need registration
with the supporting research to sell and use it.
 >And what about the big guys out there using "home remedy?")
What big guys? You must mean big honey producers, most of them are
not in any position to have their honey found to contain any chemical
residues of any kind, and all the major honey packers and industrial
users have labs to check honey for chemical residues and adulteration of
any kind and do not buy from any "big guy's" who use any "home remedy".
A big producer is in no better position to have honey sent back or
dumped down the tubes because of home remedy use then is the small guy.
Then we should also know that there is a difference between "home
remedy" and "home brew". I tried for years to find a way to feed bees
proteins in a liquid diet using pure pollen as the source of protein.
I knew that all foods consumed by honeybees are consumed as a liquid as
they are not provided with the tools to hunk off a chunk like we are.
I never succeeded in doing much for the bees but did find the outer
limits that when the bees consumed my liquid diet they would just flat
quit feeding brood but never found a value in that. I also learned a
lot about "home brew" as there is a big difference between the pollen
bees bring into the hive and the pollen that they consume as food.
Bee collected pollen that has naturally fermented may be a better
ingredient for adding to bee diet supplements then pollen that has
not fermented as the bees maybe going to ferment any pollen they bring
in the hive into "bee bread" before using it anyway.
In fact if there is real danger in all of the things we beekeepers
do to our bees it is first to the bees themselves, 2nd the beekeeper
and his own family, and then to whomever he gives or sells his honey
locally and this includes all beekeepers big or small. When I was a big
beekeeper I did not give or sell my own honey to anyone but the honey
buyers and always purchased bottled honey, sometimes my own to give away
as gifts and know many other beekeepers who do the same including the
biggest of the big in California where we pay big cash rents for most
bee locations and don't get much for a can of honey any more when it
comes to public relations or bee locations.
D>Also, is anyone else out there worried about the wax pool becoming
 >contaminated?  ("Wax Pool..." what a thing to be worried about!
Sure there are in fact a lot of very interested people who do watch very
close, maybe even closer then honey as there are many pharmaceutical uses
that require beeswax. They are know as BeesWax Buyers and Refiners,
usually the guy who buys the wax from the guy beekeepers sell it too,
and you can be sure they have employed very respected and knowledgeable
chemists. The beeswax market has detected small changes in beeswax over
the years and in fact the standard analyst may have been changed a few
years back to reflect the increase of bromides in natural wax from two
decades of using several different chemicals in controlling wax moths by
beekeepers, or maybe some other environmental use.
At times wax adulated with other non beeswax waxes is also detected but
since the advent of all plastic frames this has leveled out. Beeswax is
a renumeral resource that is because much of it went back into the bee
comb foundation and changes in the environment were somewhat trapped or
magnified in the beeswax harvested from year to year. The vast majority
of things that you and I would worry about are removed in the normal
processing of beeswax on the farm or at the wax refinery. Beeswax can be
treated with chemicals and filtering agents that remove most all of the
contaminates if they are known. And pure beeswax is really refined
beeswax at the industrial consumer level. Beeswax is so individual and
reflects how the individual beekeeper handles his own beeswax that
buyers on the third tier of handling have been able to trace it back to
individual producers and areas of actual production because of
identifiable differences. Very similar to raw gold which also can be
traced back to the area it was first dug up and sometimes to the mine
itself and it is a normal analytical assay practice to avoid "salting"
which would be common if not held down by assay chemists..
 >Minimally, this has some serious implications for queen breeding
 >since the "cups" grafted into and used for starting queen cells need
 >to be free of anything that would harm the larvae - and my
 >understanding is that many of the big queen producers buy
 >the cups rather than produce them.
Don't know about others but around here the bee breeders make their
own cups or use the plastic cell cups. I don't know anyone who buys
wax cell cups but someone must I am sure.
 >I wonder if anyone in the production
 >end is watching this.  I would think that this would be one of the first
 >place that miticide residues would begin to be a problem, next perhaps in
 >foundation used for brood frames, and last for foundation used for honey
 >frames.
Bad manufactured wax cell cups have been know to kill or damage many
queens bee grubs in the past and everyone at all levels are alert to
any new problems or reports of them. I know of none with wax cell
cups, but now bad sugar syrup is a sad story for another time.
D>If there's any legitimacy to this concern, we may end up experiencing
 >the problem in the next year or two in the form of commercial queen
 >producers experiencing difficulty in producing queens - even after/if we
 >find a replacement for apistan.
We all share some concern but I am more concerned that beekeeper have
jumped on the agricultural chemical merry go around and without some
benign treatment for mites like the use of essential oils of one kind
or another will in time never bee able to get off without some fear
of their bees being destroyed by mites.
                                ttul Andy-
(c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document
in any form, or to print for any use.
(w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk.
---
 ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Where the wild bee never flew,
>>> Item number 14885, dated 97/04/10 12:09:33 -- ALL
Date:         Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:09:33 -0400
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "Mike Swintosky ([330] 471-3128)" <swintosk@timken.com>
Subject:      Experimental Mite Treatments
Does anyone know the status of the approval process for making formic acid
a legal treatment in the US?  What is the holdup?  Is there a name and address
of someone you could write to to voice your support and/or complain about the
slow movement of the approval process?
Also, is it possible to purchase small quantities of formic acid for
experimental use (treatment before or after the honey flow)?
And what about NEEM oil?  A friend of mine asked if anyone has tried it.  Are
there any known problems with its use in the hive from an experimental
standpoint?  Yes, it's not an approved substance in the US, but are there any
known detrimental effects?  Providing that there is a possibility of safety,
is there a source for purchasing small quantities?
Mike Swintosky
Carroll County Beekeepers
>>> Item number 14952, dated 97/04/13 22:04:35 -- ALL
Date:         Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:04:35 +0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         George_Willy <villginn@plainfield.bypass.com>
Subject:      Re: Experimental Mite Treatments
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Does anyone know the status of the approval process for making formic acid
>a legal treatment in the US?  What is the holdup?  Is there a name and address
>of someone you could write to to voice your support and/or complain about the
>slow movement of the approval process?
>
>Also, is it possible to purchase small quantities of formic acid for
>experimental use (treatment before or after the honey flow)?
>
>And what about NEEM oil?  A friend of mine asked if anyone has tried it.  Are
>there any known problems with its use in the hive from an experimental
>standpoint?  Yes, it's not an approved substance in the US, but are there any
>known detrimental effects?  Providing that there is a possibility of safety,
>is there a source for purchasing small quantities?
>
>Mike Swintosky
>Carroll County Beekeepers
 Mike
        From what I know formic acid is extreemly caustic and in applying
it via the wick process can be dangerous to both you and the bees.
Breathing apparatus, gloves, temperature monitoring etc.  A new sponge
saturated method is being tested.  FDA approval. We are all waiting.  I'm
not ready to try anything that would jeaprodize the bees and welcome
scrutiny.
        George
George & Lorraine Willy
The Village Inn of East Burke
Box 186
East Burke, Vermont
05832
>>> Item number 15041, dated 97/04/16 16:59:38 -- ALL
Date:         Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:59:38 -0700
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Adony Melathopoulos <melathop@SFU.CA>
Subject:      Re : Neem Oil
In-Reply-To:  <199704161948.TAA25990@beaufort.sfu.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mike :
> And what about NEEM oil?  A friend of mine asked if anyone has tried it.  Are
> there any known problems with its use in the hive from an experimental
> standpoint?  Yes, it's not an approved substance in the US, but are there any
> known detrimental effects?  Providing that there is a possibility of safety,
> is there a source for purchasing small quantities?
I am one of the researchers who is working on the effects of neem oil on
honey bees, mites, and honey bee diseases.  I do not think anyone has a
good idea of how neem oil (or refined neem oil extracts) work against
mites or how safe it is to use around bees.  The published studies I have
seen to date suggest some preliminary miticidal and antibiotic properties,
but other studies suggest that honey bee larva are somewhat suceptible to
poisioning.  I know of no study that looks at queen fertility after being
treated with neem (some, but not all, adult insects become less fertile or
even sterile when treated with neem).  Without some research to guide
the way (we're working on it), a neem treatment you might dream up may have
some very nasty side-effects against your bees.  I would not recomend playing
with the stuff just yet.
Cheers
Adony
***********************************
** Adony P. Melathopoulos *********
*** Center for Pest Management ****
**** Simon Fraser University ******
***** Burnaby, British Columbia ***
****** Canada, V5A-1S6 ************
***********************************
Tel : (604) 291-4163
Fax : (604) 291-3496
e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca
"The pursuit of agriculture promotes the strength of the mind
 as well as the body"
         - Rev. John L. Blake, 1853
>>> Item number 16166, dated 97/06/05 10:58:40 -- ALL
Date:         Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:58:40 +0100
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "THONE HUGO VE144 (240)9452" <THONEH@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be>
Subject:      Re: Vespa crabro- results (one) niet voor mij ?
In-Reply-To:  <199706042227.AAA13057@phobos.glo.be>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>Thanks for your answer about my dear Crabro. Greetings
> from Belgium to Canton/USA. Sig: Maurice.
hi maurice,
ik neem aan dat dit berichtje niet voor mij bestemd was
;-)
Hugo
+++++
Hugo Thone (SE144)               (\
                                {|||8-
ALCATEL TELECOM                  (/
F.Wellesplein 1
B-2018 Antwerp            do bee do bee do ....
email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be
phone : (32) 3 240 94 52
fax   : (32) 3 240 99 50

--=====================_887660021==_--
>>> Item number 23381, dated 98/06/16 11:05:19 -- ALL
Date:         Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:05:19 -0600
Reply-To:     Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology
              <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology
              <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Teresa Garcma <logar@ACNET.NET>
Subject:      Neem tree
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I know there are people from all over the world in this list, and I
would like to ask if somebody has ever used the "Neem tree" for
controlling Varroa?
Thank you,
Tere
>>> Item number 23385, dated 98/06/16 22:21:09 -- ALL
Date:         Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:21:09 +0100
Reply-To:     gsm.wardell@virgin.net
Sender:       Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology
              <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "GSM.WARDELL" <gsm.wardell@VIRGIN.NET>
Subject:      Neem Tree
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My dictionary says Neem  see nim.   Nim 1 To take,To steal, pilfer. (Old
English)
Nim2 An old and widespread game, perhaps originally Chinese.
Nim3 margosa, a species of Melia, yielding nim-oil. (Hindu)
How might this plant be used for treating Varroa infested hives?
Geoff Wardell,  Scotland UK.
>>> Item number 23388, dated 98/06/16 18:11:39 -- ALL
Date:         Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:11:39 -0700
Reply-To:     Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology
              <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology
              <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Andy Nachbaur <andy.nachbaur@CALWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Neem Tree
Comments: To: gsm.wardell@virgin.net
In-Reply-To:  <3586E1C5.4F03@virgin.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:21 PM 6/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Nim3 margosa, a species of Melia, yielding nim-oil. (Hindu)
NEEM, Very very old plant used for several thousand years for its medical
uses one use may also be as an natural insecticide or at the least the
insect repelling abilities of this plant are recognized with more then 1/3
of the population of the earth, so it is said so it must bee.
Just saw a TV flick on bats that pollinate this tree or shrub and spread
the seeds as without them it would have been over harvested or something,
hole Batman. It is used, the leaves, in heavy insect flying areas, as a
garnish around exposed food containers to keep the insects and blow fly's
out of the salad and soup.
Much research has been done on this plant and it products including bee
research but I can not direct you to it as it is locked away on one of my
hard drives but here in California you can buy NEEM in so called Health
Food stores, I tried it, blaaa. But I would like to try the oil if anyone
has a source. I guess I will have to make a trip to one of the new INDIA
super markets that are showing up in some of the bigger cities around here.
But having to watch and listen to that Indian bee bop on local India TV
just to see the commercials is a chore plus all the good stuff is also sold
via Indian language commercials so you are never sure if you are watching a
commercial for a personal  deodorant or a finger nail restorer or just an
add to procure a virgin bride from the old country.
The oil from the plant or seed is said to have the ability to stop the
growth of cancer cells by cutting off the blood so the tumor dies. I got
this tumor on the end of my noise, oh well so I pay the doctor 15K to wack
off my noise or pay the witch doctor and have it fall off a la natural.
>How might this plant be used for treating Varroa infested hives?
I know I have read about using NEEM or testing it in the apiary environment
and I thought it was being looked at in Canada but that's all I can say
without looking at the stuff on my old hard drive.
A few stops on the net you will find all the information on NEEM as a
ecoSafe insecticide and more.
http://www.plasmaneem.com/
http://www.neemfoundation.org/
http://www.proclus.com/interpet/01interpet.html
http://www.jegson-neem.com/prod.htm
A lot more but I have not finished reading them.<G> Use a Super Search site
like the one at:
http://beenet.com/search.htm
ttul, the OLd Drone

(c)Permission is given to copy this document
in any form, or to print for any use.
(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE  AT OWN RISK!
>>> Item number 23391, dated 98/06/16 22:45:49 -- ALL
Date:         Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:45:49 -0400
Reply-To:     Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology
              <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology
              <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Diane Boller <diane@POEMS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Neem Tree
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I may be confused, but I think that I've read a label on a Neem oil product
indicating that it's toxic to honey bees. I'd wanted to use an environmentally
friendly product on some fruit trees growing in my garden, and Neem oil was
recommended to me, but I chose not to buy the product I found (whose active
ingredient, I think, was Neem) because of the bees.  Unless someone else checks
this first, I'll try to do so within the next few days.
>
>>> Item number 23393, dated 98/06/16 23:48:04 -- ALL
Date:         Tue, 16 Jun 1998 23:48:04 -0600
Reply-To:     allen dick
Sender:       Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology
              <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Allen Dick
Subject:      Re: Neem tree
In-Reply-To:  <3586A5CF.4DB2@acnet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> I know there are people from all over the world in this list, and I
> would like to ask if somebody has ever used the "Neem tree" for
> controlling Varroa?
There have been tests done in California and in Canada.  The initial
rumour was that it was effective against tracheal, but more recent word --
as I recall -- is that is is worthless as a treatment and questionable in
its appropriateness in a honey environment.
I believe Adony had some good comments to make in Saskatoon about Neem
and other essences that he has been looking at and I was hoping he'd jump
in here, but maybe he does not read the list these days or maybe he's
away.
On thing to keep in mind is that there are a number of Neem products and
it may be hard to generalize...
Seems we talked about this before somewhere.  I think I'll search...
(The writer makes a quick visit to
http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm
and searches for neem and...)
Aha!
29 Hits.
I'm forwarding to Teresa Garcma <logar@ACNET.NET>
Others can visit http://www.honeybeeworld.com//Neem.htm
and see what I found.
Allen



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>>> Item number 23396, dated 98/06/16 21:00:29 -- ALL
Date:         Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:00:29 -0700
Reply-To:     Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology
              <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology
              <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Andy Nachbaur <andy.nachbaur@CALWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Neem Tree
In-Reply-To:  <35872DDD.3F920998@poems.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:45 PM 6/16/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I may be confused, but I think that I've read a label on a Neem oil product
>indicating that it's toxic to honey bees. I'd wanted to use an
environmentally
>friendly product on some fruit trees growing in my garden, and Neem oil was
>recommended to me, but I chose not to buy the product I found (whose active
>ingredient, I think, was Neem) because of the bees.  Unless someone else
checks
>this first, I'll try to do so within the next few days.
I am sure it is toxic to bees as most if not all products sold to kill
insects are and since some of the Neem formulations are mixed with
insecticidal soap which alone would kill any bees it gets on.. Kill the
bee, kill the bees pests.<G> But then if you are going to treat your trees
or garden for pests and the plants are not attractive to bees it may be the
product for you.
At the same time it may be that with low doses Neem is not harmful to bees,
this I don't know, but could be that it would kill Vampire mites and not
the bees but then you have the smell. If it smells as bad as what I have
read it more then likely would drive the bees out of the hive.<G>
ttul, the OLd Drone
>
>