Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

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Crofter
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Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by Crofter » January 21st, 2017, 7:40 pm

I would like to hear other peoples thoughts or ongoing experiments regarding the relatively new formulation of oxalic acid / glycerine impregnated strips or shop towels.

I should receive the glycerine early in the week and will play around with how viscous the mixture is and how easily it impregnates shop towels. I want to see how uniformly the towel will hold the prescribed amount and how drippy or dry they will be to handle.

Perhaps someone here has already been down that trail!

Frank
Frank

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Countryboy
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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by Countryboy » January 21st, 2017, 8:17 pm

Seriously?

This kind of nonsense never ceases to amaze me. Someone comes up with a new way of treating mites and then folks come out of the woodwork asking everyone about their experience with this new treatment.

Why don't people simply go ask Randy Oliver instead of asking other folks on discussion boards? Come on...

I've never heard of anyone trying oxalic in glycerine until Randy Oliver talked about it in an article. I'm going to take a WAG and say 99.999% of other beekeepers never heard of oxalic in glycerine until they heard about Randy doing it.

I've never tried oxalic in glycerine. I don't know of any beekeepers who have tried oxalic in glycerine.
Perhaps someone here has already been down that trail!
And perhaps Randy Oliver is the only one who has went down that trail. (Or someone in close contact with Randy.) I suspect you'd have a lot better luck asking Randy, instead of wasting your time asking other beekeepers who likely know the same thing about oxalic and glycerin as you do.
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Allen Dick
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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by Allen Dick » January 21st, 2017, 8:36 pm

Aaron and I had lunch with Randy and his son in Galveston and this was one topic of conversation.

Randy is pretty pleased with it so far, but does emphasize it is still experimental.

It works for him, but we need to understand that Randy is not just any beekeeper and he is already restricting his treatments to spices and acids.

I understand that pressing the excess fluid out of the towels is important and also that he came to the current formulation because he wanted a method that works, but also one where the bees remove the towel. There is apparently still a little acid in the towels when they are being removed.

He is hoping for feedback from people who try it.
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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by Tenbears » January 22nd, 2017, 5:46 am

I am not in Canada So I cannot be Absolutely sure. Although I suspect it to apply. But in the United states. It is against the law to use a product in a manner contrary to labeling. The methods Randy has described are Contrary to labeling. Food for thought

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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by Allen Dick » January 22nd, 2017, 7:22 am

It will not be an issue in Canada, but could be in the USA in some states.

About now, though, the FDA and EPA are not likely to want to rock any boats.

In a case like this where the components are all either food or known to be safe to consume internally in small quantities, the rule, "No harm, no foul" should apply. Prepared appropriately, and in small amounts, you can eat oxalic acid and glycerine and even blue shop towels without ill effects.

YMMV, though and this is not a recommendation.

Randy did warn in his article that the treatment is off-label and to be aware of that.
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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by BadBeeKeeper » January 22nd, 2017, 7:36 am

Someone comes up with a new way of treating mites and then folks come out of the woodwork asking everyone about their experience with this new treatment.

Why don't people simply go ask Randy Oliver instead of asking other folks on discussion boards?
Allen Dick wrote:
January 21st, 2017, 8:36 pm
...had lunch with Randy and his son in Galveston and this was one topic of conversation.

Randy is pretty pleased with it so far, but does emphasize it is still experimental.

...

He is hoping for feedback from people who try it.
Yes, how else would one begin to judge the efficacy and repeatability of an experimental treatment, other than comparing results from a variety of different people attempting to replicate it?

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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by Crofter » January 22nd, 2017, 8:32 am

Not putting Randy Oliver down in any way. He mentions soaking and pressing out excess to a certain weight.
Do all shop towels have the same area per sheet though? I thought perhaps someone might have experimented with putting a measured amount on each shop towel and stacking them in a container to mellow before use.

Unless someone has actually worked with the mixture they wont know how viscous it is when cooled to room temperature etc. No problem; I will find that out. Just thought that someone on the forum here might have already been there.
Frank

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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by Allen Dick » January 22nd, 2017, 9:16 am

I don't think the dosage is critical.

Also, the idea comes from Chile, if I remember right.

At any rate, I recommend reading the article in the January 2017 ABJ. The instructions seem clear enough to me.

Randy has yet to post it on his website and I am reluctant to do so due to copyright concerns.
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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by BDT123 » January 22nd, 2017, 2:53 pm

There are 8 pages of posts in the Beesource Commercial forum on Randy's formulation.
I agree, the ABJ article Randy put in is worth a read. Interestingly, he made an impassioned case for breeding mite resistant bees in a separate article in the same issue (Jan 2017).

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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by Allen Dick » January 22nd, 2017, 4:23 pm

Or you could just buy Danny Weaver's bees. He has had varroa resistant bees since 1999.
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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by BDT123 » January 24th, 2017, 12:53 pm

Aaron Morris said yesterday on Bee-L that Danny's sold out at this time.

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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by BDT123 » January 24th, 2017, 1:01 pm

Randy Oliver has an update on his website to his ABJ article. Says the ABJ article will be on his website soon.
He is also the one that posed the question on Bee-L about docility of Weaver queens.

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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by Allen Dick » January 24th, 2017, 1:02 pm

Yes. I saw that. Interestingly, they were shipping queens when we were there. I inquired and Dan said that they are able to bank queens without sacrificing quality and said that he banks them right in the middle of a queenright colony.

As for being sold out they are conservative in their commitments because spring weather can vary a lot from year to year. I imagine there is a waiting list and in a good year, or if there are cancellations, that list would be filled, so it is always worth a try.

Unfortunately, they cannot come to Canada because Weavers are in an Africanized area and CFIA embargoes bees from AHB areas.
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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by BDT123 » January 24th, 2017, 8:18 pm

Crofter, I'm going to use Randy's magic towels as a late summer treatment. Let us all know how your treatment goes.

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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by BDT123 » January 24th, 2017, 8:38 pm

Frank, I'm going to try it this year, probably an August treatment. Keep us posted on your results.
Late winter, OAV, late spring Thymovar, post -flow, shop towels/OA
No MAQS here at BeeMaid, but could try mite-wipes, Formic in meat paks. Will see. Depends on temperatures.
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Re: Oxalic acid / Glycerine experience?

Unread post by RV10flyer » February 2nd, 2017, 8:59 am

Countryboy wrote:
January 21st, 2017, 8:17 pm
Seriously?

This kind of nonsense never ceases to amaze me. Someone comes up with a new way of treating mites and then folks come out of the woodwork asking everyone about their experience with this new treatment.

Why don't people simply go ask Randy Oliver instead of asking other folks on discussion boards? Come on...

I've never heard of anyone trying oxalic in glycerine until Randy Oliver talked about it in an article. I'm going to take a WAG and say 99.999% of other beekeepers never heard of oxalic in glycerine until they heard about Randy doing it.

I've never tried oxalic in glycerine. I don't know of any beekeepers who have tried oxalic in glycerine.
Perhaps someone here has already been down that trail!
And perhaps Randy Oliver is the only one who has went down that trail. (Or someone in close contact with Randy.) I suspect you'd have a lot better luck asking Randy, instead of wasting your time asking other beekeepers who likely know the same thing about oxalic and glycerin as you do.
Mr. Ricardo Prieto in Argentina has been using the oxalic/glycerine mix since 2013. Randy adjusted the proportions and prefers shop towels over cardboard strips.

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