Swarm May 24th 2016

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Biermann
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Swarm May 24th 2016

Unread post by Biermann »

Hello,

I have a general question to understand the swam scenario.

My hive was going wild last week, May 24th in the morning after some rainy days and it was very noisy. I had to go and work and did not get back before 5.00 pm and checked the hive and all was quite. Good I thought, no worries. On the supper table, I looked outside towards my hive and froze, a big cluster of bees was hanging 15' from the hive low in a caragana bush. I went out, got a box with drawn comb with some honey from 2015 and got the cluster in, but only got about 2/3 because of the low hanging of the cluster. I left the hive by the bush and looked in the morning, not much had changed and in the afternoon the hive was empty and all were hanging in a bush again. This time I was better prepared, got pollen patty and a frame feeder with syrup and got all bees in the box. The bees were all inside, hard at work and I moved the hive beside the old hive and all is good.

Now my questions: I assume the hive split because it was getting to strong (to many bees for the quarters). I also assume that the old queen went along?! Now could a new queen be in the old box or will the old portion of the stock have to make a new queen and this one needs to go out and maid? What if she goes to maid, does she always come back?

I will do a thorough inspection later this week when it has warmed up to look for eggs and if I am lucky for a queen in each hive.

Maybe you can give me some answers on my probably unintelligent questions, I have search a good deal to find answers, without success.

Joerg
Allen Dick
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Re: Swarm May 24th 2016

Unread post by Allen Dick »

Both halves will have a queen. You don't need to check them, but it is a good time to give the swarm Apivar since there is no brood at the moment.
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Countryboy
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Re: Swarm May 24th 2016

Unread post by Countryboy »

The first swarm of the year a hive throws is called a prime swarm, or a main swarm. The old queen leaves with this swarm. The old hive will raise a new queen. Usually a swarm will not fly until the queen cells are capped. Check the old hive for a new queen in 2 weeks. Usually a queen will get mated, but every once in a while the virgin queen does not return from her mating flight. (Ate by bird or dragonfly, or car windshield.)

If a hive throws more swarms after the prime swarm, these smaller swarms are sometimes called caste swarms. They will have virgin queens in them. Sometimes a hive will swarm itself to death. It keeps sending small swarms until there are no bees left in the original hive.
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Biermann
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Re: Swarm May 24th 2016

Unread post by Biermann »

Thanks Allen & CB,

Allen, the originating hive had Apivar until May 20., so I should be good?

Cheers, an other exiting year is starting.

Joerg
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Re: Swarm May 24th 2016

Unread post by Allen Dick »

Probably, but for a week or so, there is no place for any remaining varroa to hide in the swarm, so this is a chance to do a quick kill. No need to go the full 42 days. I'd do it if you have the strips. One should do it. Cheap insurance.
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Biermann
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Re: Swarm May 24th 2016

Unread post by Biermann »

Hello,

I did a thorough inspection today. The master hive has brood and eggs in the bottom brood box, honey, partially capped and pollen outside the bottom box and all in the upper brood box. I installed a honey super to give the hive room to move up and have more room in B2 for brood.

The single brood box filled with the swarm is full with honey and pollen, but no sign of eggs, queen or queen cells. I installed B2 today since B1 is totally full.

I am gong to get two nucs tomorrow and I am concerning to bring a queen along.

Any other suggestions or advise?

Cheers, Joerg
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Re: Swarm May 24th 2016

Unread post by Allen Dick »

There should be brood by now, even if the swarm was headed by a virgin queen. I'd give them frame of very young larvae and see what they do.
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Biermann
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Re: Swarm May 24th 2016

Unread post by Biermann »

Hello again,

I was away for two weeks and checked this hive yesterday. I did not see the queen and I am suspicious that the hive is queen-less.

I notice capped worker cells and cells that are being capped, but no eggs. So by my calculations this means something has happened during the time I was gone. The hive looks short of bees, too. I did not notice any queen cells, something that the worker bees should be preparing for some days, correct?

Now the question, rather than debating if my observation is correct: what happens if I introduce a new queen (can get it today if I want to) and their is a queen in the hive? It will take a few days to intro. the new queen still locked in the cage, but I can not bring the new queen back to the seller if the old queen comes out of hiding.

My other three hives are doing good, eggs and brood all stages and lots of feed.

Some advise would be much appreciated.

Joerg
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Re: Swarm May 24th 2016

Unread post by Allen Dick »

I would just stack the brood boxes from that hive on another hive for a few days and then split that resulting hive if it's large enough. If your hive has been queenless for a while requeening may be difficult. Combining the hives will allow them to equalize and balance populations

You can also just put on a frame with eggs and see what happens or take a chance and gamble on a purchased queen.
Allen Dick, RR#1 Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0
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Biermann
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Re: Swarm May 24th 2016

Unread post by Biermann »

Thanks Allen,

Right now, I dont want to monkey around again, particularly with the rainy, windy s... weather we have. Hope to catch some sunny spell and look for a frame with brood or two from my other boxes.

Cheers, hope we get some summer now with out the nasty wind.

Joerg
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