Hive Dying, Kamikaze Bees?

[Colino]

Good day, I have a hive that is dwindling out pretty fast. They come out the upper entrance, sort of do a little skittish dance and then fly off for about 3ft into the snow. Doesn't matter how cold it is outside. The ground is littered with their corpses, and no other hive is doing it. My one dead out last winter did the same thing. Could this be trachea mites? Thanks.

[Allen Dick]

It could be. There are ways of examining bees for TM.

[Colino]

It could be. There are ways of examining bees for TM.

Would you know where I could send samples? I've watched the procedure done by Jamie Ellis but I don't have a microscope, Thanks.

[Allen Dick]

I have a microscope, but the procedure is not easy. Some training is required.
Why not email Medhat and see if they are doing samples?

[Colino]

I have a microscope, but the procedure is not easy. Some training is required.
Why not email Medhat and see if they are doing samples?

I took Bio-Chemistry in college and have pretty good microscope skills but without a microscope that doesn't help. I'll try Medhat and see what he says. I guess I should collect some samples before the hive is completely dead. I was pondering also that if this had happened in warmer weather where the bees could fly farther it would look like a classic case of CCD.

[Countryboy]

Any beekeeper from the USA or Canada can send bees to the Beltsville Bee Lab for testing free of charge. Make sure you read how they want the bees packaged and shipped.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7472

[Colino]

Any beekeeper from the USA or Canada can send bees to the Beltsville Bee Lab for testing free of charge. Make sure you read how they want the bees packaged and shipped.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7472

Thanks Countryboy:
I checked the rules out and I will still have to have them sent through my provincial bee inspector.
Colino

[Countryboy]

I had read that any beekeeper in the US or Canada could get samples tested, but had never looked up the restrictions for Canadians. (I'm not up there so it doesn't affect me.)

I glanced at the Canada requirements and see that you are right. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that with all the beehives in Alberta, Medhat or whomever the inspector is that you have to go through has probably done this a thousand times and the process will be pretty simple and straightforward for you.

[Allen Dick]

There is a Canadian facility. There were also private individuals that did the test for 25c a bee years ago. May still be. I seem to recall that we offered that service for a short while to keep one of our employees' wife busy.

The procedure is not difficult, but requires some training, and properly prepared specimens. It is tedious for more than a few bees, and involves pulling off the head, then the collar and teasing out the trachea, then looking for mites.

If formic has been used, dead mites may remain in the tracheae, confusing results.

Check this link, but I'd start with Medhat. He has people, too.
https://www.thenbdc.ca/diagnostic-services

[Colino]

There is a Canadian facility. There were also private individuals that did the test for 25c a bee years ago. May still be. I seem to recall that we offered that service for a short while to keep one of our employees' wife busy.

The procedure is not difficult, but requires some training, and properly prepared specimens. It is tedious for more than a few bees, and involves pulling off the head, then the collar and teasing out the trachea, then looking for mites.

If formic has been used, dead mites may remain in the tracheae, confusing results.

Check this link, but I'd start with Medhat. He has people, too.
https://www.thenbdc.ca/diagnostic-services

Thanks Allen:
I've left a message on Medhat's phone and sent him an email, but it is the holiday season and I don't expect to hear from him until Monday.

[karen]

Scarring of the trachea can be seen with a magnifying glass. The trachea should be clear or creamy white if it is black or brown there is a problem. Usually one side is effected more. Pull some heads off and take a look, they need to be fresh bees don't pick up bees that have been dead for a while.

trachea_of_mites.jpg

[Allen Dick]

Thanks Karen.

That is an excellent picture. As I recall however getting the specimen set up like that is not the easiest thing in the world for the uninitiated.

Out of curiosity, do you offer that service to people? Also I wonder how much interest there is in tracheal mites in your area, and if people are treating for them?

[karen]

I teach how to dissect bees to see or remove the trachea. The main interest is nosema when I teach microscopy classes though having the skill to examine the trachea is an interest to all who take my class. I do offer both tracheal examination and nosema checks to others. I find most want to learn to do it themselves and it is not hard once you have good guidance.
http://newmoonapiary.com/events.html

Most miticides take care of tracheal mites along with Varroa so in my area, those who treat, tend not to have problems.

[Colino]

I teach how to dissect bees to see or remove the trachea. The main interest is nosema when I teach microscopy classes though having the skill to examine the trachea is an interest to all who take my class. I do offer both tracheal examination and nosema checks to others. I find most want to learn to do it themselves and it is not hard once you have good guidance.
http://newmoonapiary.com/events.html

Most miticides take care of tracheal mites along with Varroa so in my area, those who treat, tend not to have problems.

Morning Karen:
I treated this hive with apivar in September. I'll have to see if apivar takes care of TM. I'm going to run to town and buy a good magnifying glass. Jamie Ellis has a good video on how to prepare the bees. https://youtu.be/yv4zzGv_x_Q
Thanks
Colino

[Allen Dick]

Well, an amitraz product was first introduced in the USA many years ago for use against tracheal mites, but the company was sued by a beekeeper and the product withdrawn. It was many years before the chemical was brought back, this time for varroa.

From an old article: - http://www.mainebee.com/articles/eval.php

The other Chemicals tested in this study gave little or no control of the mites. Amitraz gave the highest level of control of the six products tested...

[Charlie]

Colino » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:21 pm
My one dead out last winter did the same thing.

This may be a silly question but does this hive use the same equipment as last year's problem hive?

also ebay has
Portable USB 200X 2MP Digital Microscope Endoscope Video Camera Computer Price:C $18.89 Free shipping
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Portable-USB-200 ... Sw0vBUjrmU

I have never used one but it should work in theory it's only two megapixels so I wouldn't expect the absolute best pictures from it but is probably adequate to the task. I just ordered one is a late Christmas present to myself

I would also wonder if some of the new cell phones with the really good cameras could not be used, where you would focus in on the trachea and then blow the picture up on screen. Obviously would require a steady hand and good lighting.

[Allen Dick]

I have one of the 'scopes described. It is OK.

I would also wonder if some of the new cell phones with the really good cameras could not be used, where you would focus in on the trachea and then blow the picture up on screen. Obviously would require a steady hand and good lighting.

These days I routinely use the camera preview on my Nexus 5 for a magnifying glass and only click if I want a record or to examine the image in greater detail on a larger screen.

[Colino]

Colino » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:21 pm
"My one dead out last winter did the same thing."
This may be a silly question but does this hive use the same equipment as last year's problem hive?

Hello Charlie:
No this hive was a split I did last spring. I used comb from my honey supers and new foundation. The comb from the dead out was given to bees from a cut out and they are doing fine.

[karen]

In my microscopy classes I teach removal of the trachea and mounting it on a dry slide with examination under 400x. It takes some practice, some pull apart several bees and others get it first try.

I recommend doing the removal wearing magnifying glasses from the dollar store. If you wear prescription glasses get a large enough pair to put them over them. Be sure to get the right magnifying glasses for your needs.

I mount the bees on foam board, I do not make wax dishes or leave them in alcohol. It is small pieces left from cutting up foam board for insulation. Usually the bees have been frozen since that is now recommended when checking for nosema.