Selling Out/Where To Be

[Allen Dick]

Here is a topic that is of interest to everyone sooner or later.
---
Alan,
I follow your posts with interest as we have just made the big downsize and have moved to a new city. We have moved past the sailboat phase, it was a CS-36, a great cruising boat made in Ontario. We then did the RV phase for about twelve years. Now we just fly to the sun and vegetate for the winters. I do understand the anguish over giving up the workspace, tools, projects and connections. My advise is to do it sooner rather than hang on and have to do it later, possibly under duress.

[AdrianQuineyWI]

Allen, I think there is a lot of common sense in the advice given above. taking control of one's affairs whilst you have the ability to do so puts you in control. Which leads me to another thought. I wonder if being so independent for so long, and running your own business, makes it harder to be in a circumstances when you are not the boss? Yet, it seems to me that you have too much energy at the moment to just put on a pair of slippers and sit by the fire.

[Allen Dick]

Yeah. I know, but I am here with Mom. She is 95 and living in her own house and driving her own car. I'm not her obviously, but how can I decide? If, and I am not expecting this, but what I have another twenty-five years!

That's a long time to have given up and quit, and sit waiting for The Reaper. Shucks, Mom ran a university for a while when she was ten years older than I am now.

[Vance G]

I doubt if I have the answer for you because you saved your money when you were a kid and have so many more options. I am far from poor but boats on two coasts are not in my budget. You have tremendous flexibility in your life and busy is good and you are motivated to keep busy by all your irons in the fire including the little schoolhouse on the prairie. If I had the space you have, I would think I died and went to heaven! My comfortable home on a small lot where my children grew up is pretty well where I will stay though. I remember when I planted all those roses and fruit trees and built 1200 square feet on this house and a big garage. It has become a part of me I guess. I was out of bees for a long time and I couldn't become a snowbird as who would pop lids when the Chinook blew in and as long as I am able I am going to be keeping bees. Where I live may not be the best place on earth but I have never been anywhere I liked a lot better. My grandkids are at least equal distance and can be visited within a reasonable drive. Those are my reasons for staying where I am at. They are not nearly as compelling as the reasons you have. Pry open your wallet and put in a propane or gas heating system for your manse. You could have enough battery built in to power it thru any normal outage. Hire a caretaker to water the plants and wind the cat. You already have friends doing this. Make it a more formal relationship. I personally would not be pried loose from your setup. As you have pointed out, your children are set up and you will not be damaging their life by using your resourse to secure your own. You don't have to make these choices while you are sound of mind and body. If the day comes when you are not as physically sound, puttering around your place assisted by local employee/friends might be just the ticket too. You are in a great position no matter what you decide. You have options. My advice is to leave them open.

[karen]

I have been wondering why you want to buy a boat when what you need is a back up plan for heat. Think about gas heat and solar panels to run it when the power goes out. Investing in your house will make it easier to sell when you decide to get out of Dodge.

Or rent your house if your not ready to part with it and see how not living there feels. You have a huge amount of options. Which can be over whelming.

Or just sell it all and get a live aboard and live where ever you want. If you miss bees just sail through the Panama canal up the east coast and come work mine.

I know you like a plan and you like to research so get to it. Figure out your options so you can make a plan, or not.

[cam bishop]

I'm like Dorothy in the Wizard- "there's no place like home."

[AdrianQuineyWI]

Women have an advantage when it comes to longevity, it seems to me that being a widower is in itself unusual. The writer of the email to you that prompted this discussed going through an RV stage. How do you feel about that as a solution to worrying about a house freezing? Your possessions would leave with you to warmer climes at a time of your choosing when the weather cools off until you are unable to drive. A fixed amount of space would reduce your ability to gather more possessions after you sold your big place.

Another line of thought. What is your need for community and companionship? Is there some group of people who you could live amongst that wouldn't drive you crazy? When I was young I used to fantasize about living all by myself on an island; As I got older I realized that even though I need alone time, I need people as well. My family and working in a hospital with caring people meets those needs. I wonder if, despite being retired, there is some work related routine that would suit you? Something seasonal. Perhaps being the maintenance man at a summer camp; I have long been amazed at your ability to fix anything. Drive your RV north to a resort in the summer, work/live in at the resort until Fall, and then drive South for the winter for as long as you can. Heck, then you might even be able to work at a boat place for the other season.

Anyway, just some thoughts. I think it appropriate for all of us to think and plan.

[Allen Dick]

I don't know where to start on this topic beyond what I write in the diary, but the comments here so far have been invaluable. I'm pondering them. I also am aware that at this point, that I am still in grief and experiencing a certain level of denial.

What I have learned over time is that some problems cannot be described, and after writing reams, I have had to tear it all up and start over or boil it all down to one or two lines, or even a simple yes or no.

I'll get around to wrestling with this tiger in words, but in the meantime I am still in the thinking and dreaming stage.

Please keep the insights coming.

[Allen Dick]

I follow your posts with interest as we have just made the big downsize and have moved to a new city. We have moved past the sailboat phase, it was a CS-36, a great cruising boat made in Ontario. We then did the RV phase for about twelve years. Now we just fly to the sun and vegetate for the winters. I do understand the anguish over giving up the workspace, tools, projects and connections. My advise is to do it sooner rather than hang on and have to do it later, possibly under duress.

I'll start with this one.

We did the motorhome thing for years, although not while retired. In fact, we bought a motorhome, thankfully and older one, since I then discovered my wife did not really want to go anywhere for more than two weeks at a time.

I actually went from campers and motorhomes to a boat. It is somewhat the same thing except there are no roads and I can charter the boat out when not using her.

The idea of vegetating does not appeal to me (yet) and that is maybe why I have never been on an all-inclusive or a cruise ship. I do like exploring and spent some time in the Baja windsurfing and exploring years ago.

As for giving up the shop, the tools, etc., they have much less appeal to me these days, as does the large home and grounds. I'm also getting really tired of the bees. I'm really enjoying being in a city at present and will have some contrast to contemplate when I get home tomorrow night.

As for making a move now, I decided when Ellen died to wait a year before deciding anything and I have, plus some. When I look at the work involved, I find it most daunting. I don't know what is more challenging, moving or staying.

As suggested, health or other factors might make up my mind for me. I always was counting on dying there and making it someone else's problem

For the present, I can conceivably just keep the place and spend time other places as well. My worries about leaving my home and travelling have some real foundation as two people I know well have suffered frozen pipes and seen the damage, BUT some of that house worry may just be a transferred anxiety from the change in expectations and existential angst.

[Allen Dick]

I wonder if being so independent for so long, and running your own business, makes it harder to be in a circumstances when you are not the boss? Yet, it seems to me that you have too much energy at the moment to just put on a pair of slippers and sit by the fire.

Very astute.

That about sums things up.

However, I realise that I cannot control everything. Planning and managing for the future is necessary, but the range of possible outcomes is too broad.

Ideally, I should come up with a solution that satisfies all the conditions -- works in all eventualities -- but I know it is impossible.

[Countryboy]

Are your plants really THAT important to you? It seems like frozen pipes are your primary concern, with the plants being more of an afterthought.

Why don't you just drain your pipes before leaving on winter trips? Blow some compressed air through the lines to get them completely empty. Pour a little antifreeze in all your drains so the traps don't freeze and bust too.

I'm in Ohio, and while we usually don't have brutal winters, I know some retired folks who spend the winter in Florida every year. Before they leave, they drain their water pipes and winterize their drains and toilets. If something happens and they lose power or heat, it won't hurt anything if the house freezes.

Winterizing your house would be a heckuva lot cheaper than backup heat too.

A friend's mom lives out in California near Edwards Air Force base. (She retired from there.) Her son lives here in Ohio, and her daughter lives in Virginia. Every summer, she comes back east in her motor home to spend time with her grandkids. She rents out her house in California to people who work at the air base. She rents the house furnished with all her stuff in it. (She will find someone transferring in, and she will rent to them at a reasonable price.) She figures if they have the security clearances for the air base, they are decent enough people to rent to. When the weather gets cold, she heads back to California.

I don't know how much of a market there is for rental homes in Swalwell, especially homes like yours. But you could find someone dependable to rent it to, and keep a couple rooms for yourself. Put a deadbolt on them so no one can get in the rooms while you are gone. That way, you can leave and the tenants can babysit the furnace.

And you could always sell out...and if you really enjoy that area, see if you can rent a room with the Meijer's or one of your other friends there. That way you always have a bed to come home to.

[Allen Dick]

Are your plants really THAT important to you? It seems like frozen pipes are your primary concern, with the plants being more of an afterthought.

They are important. Like pets. The place would be pretty dull without them.

The pipes, of course are a concern, as are the toilets.

Why don't you just drain your pipes before leaving on winter trips? Blow some compressed air through the lines to get them completely empty. Pour a little antifreeze in all your drains so the traps don't freeze and bust too.

At this point, I am coming and going a lot, so I would be doing and undoing that often. Not practical. For a longer absence, yes, however, when we bought the place, it had been sitting unheated and the concrete floors had heaved and the nails popped out of the plaster. I wouldn't want to have to deal with at again.

Renting could be an option, but I have heard too many horror stories and the place is one of a kind. Nonetheless, if the right persons came along, it is an option, but then again, I would have to plan to stay away for a specific time period. My health insurance requires I return monthly. Renting a room does not appeal to me. I like my solitude.

And as for selling out and returning, that is always an option. For that matter, I have a room at my daughter's anytime, but it is not what I envision as a home at this point.

I appreciate the suggestions and they all make me think.

My guess is that I am not just ready. My best guess right now is that I will quit worrying so much about the heat and also get a reliable standby.

Ellen never trusted the furnace since it let her down a time or two in 46 years and I guess she just made me very sensitive about it since it is another of my pets, having built parts of it and maintained it all these years.

[Colino]

Good Morning Allen:
I think you answered your own question on Nov. 20th in the diary:
"It's good to be home. I very much enjoyed the trip but it was very good to be back and, of course, the cat was ecstatic to see me."
Colino

[Allen Dick]

I agree. I'm not ready to sell yet, but have to consider the future. At this point, I'm less anxious about the place. My crew did a good job. I still need to get backup heat, but otherwise, there is no reason to move.

[Allen Dick]

I realise that I am quiet these days. I'm relaxing in Aliso Viejo with Jon and the grandkids. I used to spend more time down here, but the past several years kept me home and I got out of the habit.

At any rate, I should report that I have considered the advice from my friends here and made a sort of a decision. I think I won't sell -- too much work, and besides I like the place. I will, however make it less of a worry. The surveillance system helps a lot and the neighbours are reliable, so that is the first line of defense, but I need to mitigate a worst scenario situation, and that is freeze-up.

Yes, I will put in gas and a heater that prevents freezing even with a power failure, but I think I need to have a plant room that I can easily keep warm and humid and I should turn off the water main and drain the lines when going away in the coldest weather. It is not a huge job and can be done in fifteen minutes. I'd bail the toilets and pour antifreeze into P-traps, but not worry about the RO filter pods.

This is the first draft, but seems promising.

[Allen Dick]

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2015 ... ber9th2015

Today Well, one year later, I have not progressed much at all, but I am making some moves in the right direction. Colin dropped over to take a look and is checking with his sources. I'm getting back up to speed on these matters and actually doing some prep for a deeper dive into the project.

At various times in the past, I have researched installations in depth, to the point of plotting out the exhaust routing. Although a basic installation is not all that hard to set up, doing a complete and optimal installation requires a lot of planning and much of it is recursive. i.e. If this then that, but if that, then this other thing -- which affects the first thing...

I had things pretty well worked out several times and even called in heating people twice. The first time, we figured we had a plan but the contractor was too busy and by the time he was available, it was spring and other things came up.

The second time, two guys showed up the day after I left on a trip, both visibly stoned, according to El. They measured and talked and came up with an affordable price. Shortly after, they called back and said it was beyond their ability and that the job would cost at least $30K.

There is no shortage of ad-hoc suggestions, but I want to do the job right the first time and to have expansion potential. In addition to the heating issue, hot water and cooking are considerations. A decorative gas fireplace would be nice.

Anyone can slap in a heater, but doing a good job requires careful advance planning.

"Measure twice, cut once."

I know I am being too much of a perfectionist, but...

"If you didn't have time to do it right the first time, howcum you have time to do the job over again at a most inconvenient time?"

[Colino]

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2015 ... ber9th2015

Today Well, one year later, I have not progressed much at all, but I am making some moves in the right direction. Colin dropped over to take a look and is checking with his sources. I'm getting back up to speed on these matters and actually doing some prep for a deeper dive into the project.

At various times in the past, I have researched installations in depth, to the point of plotting out the exhaust routing. Although a basic installation is not all that hard to set up, doing a complete and optimal installation requires a lot of planning and much of it is recursive. i.e. If this then that, but if that, then this other thing -- which affects the first thing...

I had things pretty well worked out several times and even called in heating people twice. The first time, we figured we had a plan but the contractor was too busy and by the time he was available, it was spring and other things came up.

The second time, two guys showed up the day after I left on a trip, both visibly stoned, according to El. They measured and talked and came up with an affordable price. Shortly after, they called back and said it was beyond their ability and that the job would cost at least $30K.

There is no shortage of ad-hoc suggestions, but I want to do the job right the first time and to have expansion potential. In addition to the heating issue, hot water and cooking are considerations. A decorative gas fireplace would be nice.

Anyone can slap in a heater, but doing a good job requires careful advance planning.

"Measure twice, cut once."

I know I am being too much of a perfectionist, but...

"If you didn't have time to do it right the first time, howcum you have time to do the job over again at a most inconvenient time?"

I think part of the stress you're experiencing is from indecision. First you started out wanting an emergency heat source and now you're mentioning a decorative fireplace. You will have to decide whether you want the bare bones system or a Cadillac with all the bells and whistles. Are you going to sell your place or not. Are you going to down size. A clear direction always makes the job easier.
Colino

[Allen Dick]

First you started out wanting an emergency heat source and now you're mentioning a decorative fireplace.

I always mentioned gas stoves and fireplaces as possible future developments as well as hot water and cooking, but the word is 'future'.

The plan is to begin with a basic background heat source, adequate to prevent freezing and preserve the building and plants, but I do want to be sure that whatever is installed is expandable without having to tear out too much.

It also does not take much extra effort to select products that are superior for the purpose. Making the right decisions at the beginning can make future decisions easier. Too often oversights and lack of foresight at the beginning limits future improvements.

There is not much stress in any of this beyond dealing with permits and inspections, and possibly opening a can of worms.

My experience with this building has been that any job always turns out to be three times the size it appeared going in and I am concerned I may get mixed up with a tar-baby project or get hung up halfway through.

At present, I am working on ensuring the existing coal burner is up to the work ahead for it until such time as gas takes over.

[Allen Dick]

From today's diary entry:

I decided that the suggestion to drain the water system was a good one and spent some time sizing up the job. I've drained the cottage pipes many times, but never this building, that I can recall anyhow. The cottage was simple. No washing machines and only one toilet.

If I drained these pipes before, it was back before I had a dishwasher or a clothes washer. These appliances add a degree of complexity I think. Googling seems to indicate they have to be purged or filled with anti-freeze or both. The RO filter also adds a degree of complexity. Of course, I could just leave those items un-drained on the assumption that nothing will go wrong and with the knowledge that repairing or replacing them would not be nearly as difficult, messy and expensive as dealing the pipes in the walls or hot water tank.

Looking the job over, I see I would either have to pull a hose at the meter or install a valve for such purposes. Also, if I am going to do this job once, I may want to do it again , so I should make any alterations necessary to make the job a simple matter of opening valves, vacuuming traps blowing air and pouring plumbing anti-freeze. I do have a big air compressor with a 40-gallon tank, so I can blow air without any problem as long as I have an appropriate point to attach to.

Of course, I'll need to have a drum of water handy for plant watering while I am gone, and when I get home I'd like to just close a few drains and open a valve and be back in business.

[dtompsett]

Really three options for draining the water...

-gravity draining: Only works if the lines don't have sags and you have valves at all the low spots.

-compressed air: Generally works well, especially if you can adapt a fitting at/near the incoming water connection... connect the air compresser, set it to 30-40lbs of pressure (no need to blow apart your lines with 90psi), and then methodically walk around and open valves to purge water out of lines.

-RV antifreeze: an add-on to the compressed air if possible... this depends on how much water is "sitting" in the lines to be purged... if you can blow the lines empty (or as best you can), consider adding RV antifreeze either by gravity draining from a high point into the system, or...

Get a garden sprayer bottle... you know, the type that you would fill with pesticide/herbicide mix, pump up to build pressure, and then spray... Remove the spray hose and attach a length of hose and a fitting to adapt to the water system. My father uses this setup at the cottage to pump antifreeze into the washing machine. This would potentially allow you to pump antifreeze into the entire household system, filling low spots or problem areas (like dishwasher & washing machine) with antifreeze.

Trick comes with filling the hot water lines... as you don't want to have to fill the entire water heater with antifreeze to push it around the house. At some point I came across a custom fitting a person had made to allow them to push RV antifreeze into a faucet/tap (like the kitchen sink tap) to force the RV antifreeze back through the hot water lines.