Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

General Discussion of Diary Posts and Questions on Beekeeping Matters
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karen
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by karen »

Supering is a topic that people need guidance on. May be a lecture isn't the place for it. When I was thinking about it I was wondering what sort of photos would go with a talk like that. I find people do not have basic management skills. They are not getting it in their 5 week 2 hour long bee class. Even people who have had bees for a while, 5 years or more, don't understand some of the basics about supering. Each season is different and it does take knowledge, experience and some common bee sense.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by Allen Dick »

And then there is supering for comb honey production...
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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I meet people who have had bees for years and still add one super at a time. They do not realize how much room wet nectar takes up or that the bees need the room to regulate the temperature.
All beekeeping is local. What works in one location may not work in another.

If you are in small hive beetle territory, if you add more space than the bees can cover, you may give the SHB a foothold to get started. So sometimes, it can be wise to add only one super at a time, even if ideally the bees had more room to dry down nectar.

I think people in northern areas forget things like SHB, and additional management issues that are required to deal with them.

And then sometimes, you have southern bloggers/YouTubers/etc. in SHB territory that tell folks to only put one super on at a time...and people who don't have to deal with SHB try to mimic the same management practices of their internet hero/mentor.

Let's also not forget that many beekeepers don't know when honey is ripe enough to extract, so they will only extract frames that are completely capped. When you put on several supers at once, it's a lot harder to get frames completely capped.
I find people do not have basic management skills. They are not getting it in their 5 week 2 hour long bee class. Even people who have had bees for a while, 5 years or more, don't understand some of the basics
Therein lies the crux. How do we share our knowledge to help others become better beekeepers? And then how do we get them to teach others?
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by karen »

All beekeeping is local. What works in one location may not work in another.
Yes I agree, it is all local. It is hard to go to one area and speak about how you do something because it may not apply to whom your speaking to.
And then there is supering for comb honey production...
Add that in your bound to go over a 40 minute talk. :)
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by Allen Dick »

Let's also not forget that many beekeepers don't know when honey is ripe enough to extract, so they will only extract frames that are completely capped. When you put on several supers at once, it's a lot harder to get frames completely capped.
This is a great mystery to beginners, and actually the decision is not all that tough. The problem is that the advice is often given without asking first what will be done with the honey. Honey for the table, mead-making, or the freezer can be at any moisture level. honey for sale retail has to meet standards, and honey sold in bulk needs to meet the requirements of the packer. Packers are often happy to buy high-moisture honey to blend with drier honeys, at a small discount for the higher water content and the fact that they have to use it more quickly than drier honey.

In addition to how much space is in a hive, the season affects capping greatly and bees tend not to cap as well early in a flow as it winds down. After the flow, they may actually begin uncapping.

Personally, I don't use capping as an indicator much, and prefer shaking combs. I am also very aware that pulling late in the day is likely to bring in combs of nectar with the honey.

As far as I could ever tell, there is no quality difference between capped and uncapped honey, other than that moisture is usually reliably low in capped honey.
How do we share our knowledge to help others become better beekeepers? And then how do we get them to teach others?
I have been playing with the idea of generating a number of stock short slide shows that could be shared and presented by anyone with sufficient knowledge after seeing the original presented, or using supporting notes.
And then there is supering for comb honey production...
Add that in your bound to go over a 40 minute talk.
Some things have to be demonstrated in the bee yard. I could try to explain the principles, and often do, but each hive is different and every day is different. Comb production is an art.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by TWall »

Part of the challenge is your frame of reference. This discussion has revolved around how can we as presenters do a better job. There are things we can do but the structure of the overall program can have a bigger impact on attendee learning. We tend to think we can pour our knowledge into people. For the most part that is a very inefficient method of educating.

I had a colleague at Cornell that would share his experience teaching as a missionary in a third world country. His assigned courses were religion and math. He was very confident in teaching religion, not so much with math. At the end of the period he surveyed his students and found they liked his math class much better than religion. His teaching techniques were vastly different. In the math class there were discussions about why someone got the right answer. Students were working problems on the chalk board.

Most of us comment on how we learn more doing something than just listening to a lecture or reading a paper. Once we have some experience it is easier for us to visualize what we are hearing or reading. Most adults learn more with an experiential learning environment.

Planning committees for programs need to plan on ways to provide experiential learning. Provide plenty of time for questions. This make a presenter a little nervous since you never know what someone will ask. But, there are probably more than one person with the same questions. And, the presenter doesn't have to have the answer. There is a room full of people with a broad range of experience and knowledge. Ample time for informal conversations need to be provided.

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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by Allen Dick »

There are things we can do but the structure of the overall program can have a bigger impact on attendee learning
After my experience in BC, I came to question whether our assumptions about design of programs and presentations handed down over time are out of date and that is why we are discussing this and am brainstorming how best to present at the SABA meetings where I am scheduled to speak in a few months.

For the most part, it seems to me that the organisers of club events (not this one in particular) tend to be people who got stuck with the job of putting on the event and just look around to see what everyone else is doing or what was done last year and who is known to put on a good presentation. I suspect that the perception is that creatively may be punished and nobody can complain if the standard formula was followed.
At the end of the period he surveyed his students and found they liked his math class much better than religion.
Although the teaching method was probably a big factor as suggested, I would vote for math regardless of the teacher's skill :). The subject does matter.
Once we have some experience it is easier for us to visualize what we are hearing or reading. Most adults learn more with an experiential learning environment.
In sales, as in teaching, the goal is to make the listener visualize and there are techniques to accomplish that end that usually involves personal interaction -- give and take. Hearing and evaluating feedback is very important to maintain contact with the listeners.

A good speaker can animate a topic and understand what the audience is getting out of it just by watching faces, and asking the audience questions. Many speakers do not scan or poll the audience and that can lead to a smooth, wooden presentation that allows the presenter to walk away after thinking it was a success, while the audience thinks differently.

PowerPoint is an aid that often turns into a crutch. Many speakers set up slides, time the talk in advance and run it off like clockwork, and that can work for presenting new work and other academic presentations, but is probably inappropriate for a bee meeting where people go to socialize and interact.
Planning committees for programs need to plan on ways to provide experiential learning. Provide plenty of time for questions.
I agree, and in fact, Karen has arranged to run a hands-on microscopy session at the same meeting.
This make a presenter a little nervous since you never know what someone will ask
This is more a concern for people with a job that requires discreet responses in line with an employer's stands on topics than for those of us who are free-lancing, but IMO, if someone can't stand a little heat the best way to avoid it is to stay out of the kitchen.

There are ways to refuse to answer a question that do not appear to be evasion. Watch any politician. Also, the speaker owns the podium and can rule any question as inappropriate, off-topic, or something for later, or limit debate on any point arbitrarily, usually with the support of the audience. All it takes is confidence and without confidence, the podium is a risky place to find oneself.

For that matter, "I don't know" is a valid response which may or may not be followed by, "I've read and heard lots of things as you probably have, too, but the fact of the matter is I really don't know.
But, there are probably more than one person with the same questions. And, the presenter doesn't have to have the answer.
Precisely. The best teachers are not those with all the answers, but those who efficiently discover some of the answers with their students and lead them through the discovery process.
There is a room full of people with a broad range of experience and knowledge. Ample time for informal conversations need to be provided.
That is the conclusion I have reached, and a method I like to use. It keeps me from feeling lonely up there by myself.

Actually dialogue has a long and respected history as a teaching tool.

Al this discussion makes me realize what genius Dewey was with his brood comb analysis. I figured at the time that it was a waste of his vast talents and knowledge, but in fact, he involved every audience member, newbie and expert alike and maintained full audience participation throughout. Those of us who already knew pretty much everything that was covered were entertained -- and I guess I Iearned something after all.

In fact, though, once I noticed that I had misjudged the audience, I switched to the same Q&A format -- asking the audience questions -- so I do find that natural. I was not sure that was what the organizers expected, though and never did get the results of the audience feedback forms.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by karen »

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”. But you may be able to keep them from falling asleep.

I generally like presentations by Larry Connor and Dewey Caron. The last time I went to the Eastern Apicultural Society meeting was in 2012. I attended some of the "experienced level" short courses. Larry and Dewey had presentations about increasing hives, maintaining nucs, and raising queens. The experienced level courses where disappointing, they were very basic. I wanted to sit in at the beginner level to see if they got the same talk as the experienced level. It was really hard to stay awake through those talks.

I really like Larry's teaching style and his hands on workshops are fun. I have heard Dewey give very good talks too. I don't know why the EAS was so basic. May be the club told them "experienced" was 3-4 year beekeepers? If I had only had the experience of hearing lectures from them at that EAS meeting I probably would never attend a talk by either of them again. You know first impressions and all. I attended a talk by Dewey last fall and it was entertaining, I wasn't fighting sleep like at EAS.

So having a backup plan when you see your audience’s eyes rolling and lids’ closing it is a good idea. Something engaging... May be some mental jumping jacks.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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Stumbled upon this thread when researching Megan in preparation for the SABA seminar. Like the speakers,I try to do a little homework before attending a seminar.Unfortunately,Allen,Iwas unable to find out the topic of your talk due to the fact that registration has been closed down because of unprecedented interest.

I like the idea of a speaker being flexible to modify his talk in response to questions from the audience but get frustrated when the speaker gets bogged down by questions(from newbees and experienced beeks alike) that can be easily answered by a little research at home or reading a couple of books.And then there are the questions where the asker only wants to promote his own agenda.
SABA,like most clubs,has seen a huge influx of new members but the annual seminar has always attracted experienced beeks from a much larger area. Not uncommon to see people from Western NY,Ct,Vt,Ma,Nh and(yes Karen) even Me.
Although a member,I live 100 mi away(N.CT) and won't make to the meeting on the 16 th but looking forward to the 21st. Sounds like you and Aaron will have plenty of time to visit.

Karen,I hope I get a chance to look through your 'scopes if I'm not to busy selling T shirts or raffle tickets.If you have a sample of a squash bee bee ,it would be great to show the newbees the difference.

Still searching for the perfect queen for my small TF operation.Leaning towards certified Russians.

Jack
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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If you have a sample of a squash bee bee ,it would be great to show the newbees the difference.
Sorry no squash bees, I have some samples of nosema infected bees, chalkbrood and pollen. I also have a variety of anatomy slides but all of honey bees.

I just got home from FL this morning I was visiting my mother and brother. My brother has bees and we split a bunch of hives and grafted queens. The weather was really nice. The oak and swamp maples are blooming. Came home to spring like weather 42F here today.
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Presentations for Review.

Unread post by Allen Dick »

I have reworked some old presentations and written the 'Myths" outline in preparation for the coming week and SABA meetings.

As mentioned previously, I am considering sharing them online, but at this point am thinking that I should offer one or two for review and comment purposes to people on this forum who show interest before publishing them. There are some points that are redundant and the organisation could stand improvement IMO. A few points, I may delete and others may be added. I still have a week until I present the "Myths" talk.

So, if you PM me by the contact link under my avatar on this board, I'll provide a link to the PowerPoint file or files by PM.

Please be patient. Internet is sketchy here in the Caribbean, so it may take a day or so to get a response.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by Allen Dick »

As at 8:57 PM EDST, no takers. That surprises me.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

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I did PM that I was a taker but may be you didn't get it or your making me wait and see.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by Allen Dick »

Actually I got one PM and that was not from you. I got an email from you but have not been answering email today and am considering changes before requesting more comment.

I'm also relaxing after last night's presentation.

The reception from the crowd was as far as I could tell, during and after, very favorable, as have been the comments on previous presentations, but one comment from an organizer has me wondering:
I liked your Q+A segment last night. You got going and got right down to it then!
Are your two presentations for Saturday as full of text-covered slides as last night’s was? It was an odd feeling, listening to you read off of slides one after another. It was much more enjoyable hearing you just talk. Some photos would have added a lot to it!
Curious. They did not have comment forms at this event, and comment forms can be very helpful in seeing if the talk hit the target. When I have had comment forms, usually, in my experience, there are one or two who found the talk too hard or fast and one or two, too easy and slow, but most responses cluster in the upper middle to very positive end. That is the best we can expect. IMO.

How does one add graphics and photos to these topics without wasting time and diluting the content? I have presentations which are nothing but photos, but graphically illustrating finance and myths is a bit beyond me.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by karen »

I have attended presentations where the person just read the text off of their PP presentation and I honestly didn't like it. I too would like a few photos sprinkled in plus personal experienced added to the text presented. They say pictures are worth a thousand words.

Are you presenting the same topic to the club meeting and the seminar?
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by Allen Dick »

Agreed, but actually, the text was simply points which were expanded considerably in most cases, and glossed over in others.

I had some pictures, but was having software issues that resulted in adding fewer images than planned.

As I say, though, some topics lend themselves to pictures more than others.

People vary and some people cannot understand the spoken word and just look for pictures, so this causes problems for a presenter.

As discussed earlier in this topic, people's expectations have been changing. The ability and willingness to understand complex ideas in words and text seems to have declined and people expect sound and picture bites and entertainment.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by Countryboy »

A couple points to ponder...

According to MBTI (Myers Briggs Type Indicator for personality types) about 75%-80% of people are object oriented. They like sights and sounds. The remaining 20%-25% are idea oriented.
I don't know how these proportions play out in a cross-section of beekeepers.
I would suspect that a talk given to scientists would have a much higher proportion of idea oriented xNTx (rational thinkers/scientists) listeners as opposed to a group of hobbyist beekeepers who may be more the crowd that relies on YouTube videos for their beekeeping instruction.

I read an article a few years ago that pointed out the under-literacy in America. While America claims to have 99% literacy, in reality only 25% of Americans can handle reading anything more than a newspaper. Roughly speaking, reading is a burden for 75% of Americans, and they will do only the minimal amount of reading required.

I'm an idea oriented INTJ who regularly buys books, so I sometimes have difficulty relating to people who can't/won't read, and who are only interested in sights/sounds/sensations and who try to avoid thinking if at all possible. I'm the kind of guy who would find a presentation enjoyable even if the speaker just read off the slides, while throwing in some personal observations and anecdotes. (And I am the guy when faced with doing presentations writes all the points out so I don't forget anything and make sure I cover all the points I wanted to cover.)
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by karen »

It's not that it needs to be a picture story, it just needs to not be read verbatim and I doubt you’re reading it verbatim. When you’re speaking to a room full of people some are going to leave happy some not, though I would think everyone will learn something.

I taught a class last night I used a mix of photos and words because of the topic I was teaching, it is easier to show a bee with deformed wing virus than describe it. It really comes down to the topic and I can imagine that your topic is hard to find photos to match. If I was speaking on a topic that did not require pictures I would still include a few to break up the monotony of white pages with black text. I would avoid having a lot of white area on the slides and slip in a photo that relates to the topic though I am not speaking exactly about the photo. I feel it helps hold people’s attention.

I know you have done this enough times to work it into a good talk so don't let one person’s comments give you extra work. Some people are never satisfied.
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by Allen Dick »

Exactly.

I always expect that some will be ecstatic and some disappointed, due to their personal perspective and sometimes due to personal issues. In this case, though, the comment came from the organizer who approached me to speak and with whom I discussed the topics in advance.

When speaking, I scan the audience for people dozing off or leaving or fidgeting and saw none of that beyond one headed for the bathroom and someone who had to leave early. No cell phone runs.

I also got a few laughs and a lot of nods and smiles that indicate people are on board. After a number of people came up and said nice things and others went by and smiled, so I assumed that things had gone very well. We had a Q&A after and it went on for a while, then ran out of questions. All good.

Nonetheless, I am always interested in feedback, but have to be careful not to be too strongly influenced by any one person's viewpoint.

I also have to be aware that an organizer may be self-critical and worried about pleasing every last person, and that is an impossible task.

I'll share that 'Thoughts' presentation link with forum members who PM me. That is a completed presentation, but can always be improved.

I'll also share the upcoming 'Myths' presentation -- a work in progress -- after I work on it a bit today.

Countryboy gave me some good feedback on a rough copy I shared, caught some typos, suggested expanding one point and supplied some good background.

L8r
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Re: Updating Topics for Beekeeping Groups in 2014

Unread post by Allen Dick »

A couple points to ponder...
Also right on. At least in total agreement with my own observations.

I am noticing that literacy, critical thinking and attention span are declining in the last decade and being replaced by an expectation of symbolic shorthand images or catch phrases that trigger pre-implanted ideas and memes.

Left to my own devices, I never watch TV. I find it far too insulting to my intelligence. I see so-called news channels on everywhere, in waiting rooms and airports, so I assume that the majority find this BS acceptable or even desirable.

I am at Aaron's and he has the TV on much of the time so I am catching up on the latest social infections.

Increasingly, I see TV flashing a series of carefully crafted images on the screen. These images are designed to bypass our critical faculties and trigger emotions and memes, even when run at fast forward with no audio.

Scary.

At one time, people went to meetings and listened to speakers (with little or no imagery backup). Then came radio which was strictly audio. Now, after several generations of TV watching, many people don't listen or read well anymore and expect pictures, preferably with emotional content.

Apparently, this expectation carries over to presentations like the ones I am working on.
(And I am the guy when faced with doing presentations writes all the points out so I don't forget anything and make sure I cover all the points I wanted to cover.)
As am I.
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