Ross Round Quality

[garry]

Wondering if someone here might enlighten me about generaly accepted quality parameters for Ross Rounds. I pulled some this spring before clover which are darker in colour (dandilions?), would they be considered to be of less value? The later ones are completely white but many have a small hole at the bottom that the bees have made to walk through, does that affect the value? Often there is unfilled cells around the outside of the rings or at the bottom, how many would be considered too many? Also if any one might know why the recomendation is not to refrigerate? cheers thx

[Allen Dick]

With Ross Rounds, it all depends how many you have and who your market is.

For small quantities and personal gifts, anything goes. Whatever your customer knowingly accepts is AOK.

For bulk sales, it is best to ask the purchaser and get the standards in writing,plus a deposit before you produce, Bulk comb buyers are notoriously fickle, and know the market is thin. Once you have produced, you are under pressure to sell, but they can refuse to buy at the expected price or quibble about finicky little details unless you have a deposit in hand.

Freezing RR promptly kills and wax moth and somehow delays granulation later on. Refrigeration, however may make them set up if they are inclined to. 55 degrees F is the ideal temperature to cause quick granulation.

Although the major market is for white, liquid flawless combs, there is a real and strong ethnic market for granulated comb at religious festivals.

[garry]

Thanks Allen, interesting. Would you say the lack of availability of comb honey in the broader market is more a function of consumer resistance to the product, or a result of issues around production (too much of a pain to produce or perhaps does not lend itself well to economy of scale production)? or possibly some other factor that i haven't considered. I wouldn't think anyone could argue with the taste. thx again.

[Allen Dick]

Production is not a problem. We made 30,000 one year. Marketing is the issue.

[karen]

Comb honey with white wax sells best in New England. The nectar flow affects the wax color so I produce my comb honey on the spring flow when the wax is white, the main flow is from trees and then clover. The dandelion flow happens before we have supers on, it is used to build up the hives.
Price is governed by location, northern states can get a better price when sold locally. It may be because comb honey is harder to produce. For retail pricing I use the market price per pound and weight each round. The weight is effected by holes and missed cells so it sorts it self out price wise. When selling wholesale I go with market price and try to have the rounds be consistent in looks. When pricing rounds you have to consider replacement costs of the rings and covers too. Rounds are more expensive to produce than cut comb. The clam shell boxes for cut comb are less money but cut comb is messier to process then rounds.
Also I find older people appreciate comb honey more than younger. All of my comb honey is sold to older folks who were eating honey before extractors became popular. I will have to develop a new markets strategy when they are all gone. I sell more retail then wholesale.
I seal the rounds in plastic bags and freeze them, then thaw them in the bags so moisture doesn't build up on the covers.

[garry]

thx for the comments , appreciated.

[karen]

Production is not a problem.

It all depends on where you live. Here it is production because of our nectar flow. May to July and then September to the first week of October is all we get. So comb honey is usually only made on the spring flow.

[Allen Dick]

Well, a smart comb producer can make comb honey on any decent flow -- if you know how.

Most people don't and many give too may combs or try to produce on doubles. Both make the job much harder than it need be.

Production is not a problem compared to selling and getting paid if you make more than few.

[AdrianQuineyWI]

When winter comes, assuming he is snowed in and caffeinated, I would really like to hear what more Allen has to say about Ross Rounds production. There is probably nobody with more experience in this. Whilst the packaging is more expensive I appreciate the speed of processing the completed combs. I don't like the idea of cutting comb and dinking around waiting for it to drain.

[Allen Dick]

Why not ask some questions I can answer in a few short sentences?

I can never guess what people are thinking or just plain do not know, and even if I wrote a book I'd probably still miss addressing critical misunderstandings.

I can guess and do know what some of the most common misconceptions are, but there are a lot of downright counterproductive ideas out there.

Sorry if I sound short, but this is a huge topic, and an art more than science. I'm actually quite friendly but can't deal with an open-ended question

[AdrianQuineyWI]

That is a good point. I would like to start with the level of congestion required to make sure that they actually work in the ross round super. How do you judge when to time it and do you always need a queen of the same year or are you using a new queen?

[Allen Dick]

I would like to start with the level of congestion required to make sure that they actually work in the ross round super.

Congestion is not good. What is needed is proximity to brood, warmth, and little other space to store nectar and honey. In other words, a single brood chamber and no more supers at a time than they actually occupy fully.

How do you judge when to time it

Don't put the comb boxes on until the bees are on a flow and making white wax. Then pull any honey supers off and put on one comb box or two and see if they need another after a day. With RR, there is no need for an excluder.

One box holds a lot of bees. A strong hive in one brood box will need two or even three RR boxes, but don't add more than they occupy wall to wall.

Check very often as bees can occasionally fill a box in a day and will need another immediately, but no sooner.

You can add one extra or more, but risk having a lot of unfinished comb if the flow slows or ends.

and do you always need a queen of the same year or are you using a new queen?

I never paid any attention to that, but if you usually have swarming issues, younger could be better. Also, wintering might be better afterwards. RR production puts pressure on the brood chamber and can reduce brood rearing a bit.