Dear Allen,

I have read your "Feeding Syrup to Honey Bees " pages, and need to set up something similar here in Western Australia where once again, due to drought our bees are on hard times!

The problem I have is that the "experts " here say I need a pressure relief valve or bypass valve in the system.

I'm using a 2KVa diesel generator driven 240 volt 1/2 HP electric motor to drive a vane type honey pump. ('Cos that's what I have lying around here).

Since nobody here has fed bees this way before, I'd prefer to defer to your expertise and judgment than that of the well-meaning but inexperienced locals!

Pumptrol® switches here seem to be used extensively for air pressure systems but not much else.

Could you advise what pressure will be required to deliver 67% sucrose syrup through 20 metres of 1 inch hose to the standard unleaded gasoline trigger gun, at ambient temps of 20 to 40 degrees centigrade?

If you have the model number, Type or specs of the appropriate Pumptrol® switch that would be even better!!

Q. Does switching off the pump (automatically via Pumptrol® switch) obviate the need for a pressure relief valve?

Many thanks for your help.

Peter

There are several ways to do the job.  We've used pressure tanks, such as a propane tank, and driven the syrup out with regulated air pressure, and we've used gear pumps driven by DC motors.  Other use a system such as you describe, with a motor or engine running constantly and driving a vane pump.  All work, and each has its advantages.

• 500 or 1000 gallon propane tanks can be used to hold the syrup, and be pressured with compressed air from a tank or compressor.  We used such a system at one point, and some large beekeepers in the US use 1000 gallon propane tanks to dispense syrup.

• No matter what propulsion system we use, we always use a high quality gasoline nozzle, complete with the swivels, but remove the auto-shutoff mechanism.  The nozzle is connected to a 1" gasoline hose by aluminum Camloc™ connectors, and the hose connects to the pump with a similar connector as well, and a quick shutoff valve is located there.  We always turn that valve off when not feeding, to relieve the pressure on the hose and prevent accidents.  Additional sections can be added or subtracted, since they have connectors as well.  Several hoses can be attached to one system at once for feeding large yards, if there is enough capacity.  If the syrup is thin enough due to warm temperatures, a 3/4" hose works just fine, even for runs of 50 feet or more.

• We ultimately chose to build a system using a DC motor that starts and stops, depending on the pressure in the hose, for reasons of silence, compactness, convenience and efficiency.  In that plan, the pump only runs when the nozzle trigger is pulled, and stops when the trigger is released.
  
   A Pumptrol® was used to sense the pressure and activated a DC solenoid (Ford starter type) that controls the heavy current for the DC motor.  A 1/3 to 1 HP motor was used, and drives the pump by a chain, with sprocket reduction of about 6:1.  The motors we used were either starter motors or winch motors, but a nice 12 volt motor can be bought at an electric supply house.  The Pumptrol®  we use is one used for pumps in domestic water systems, but we have found that we have had to jigger the ones we've found to lower the pressure range to below 30 pounds per square inch.

• We have never used a pressure relief, since the control shut the pump off when 30 lbs -- or whatever pressure we set it at -- was reached, however, if you were to choose a continuously running system, a bypass is in order.  The bypass need not be a relief valve, but merely a shunt made of smaller pipe that allows the syrup to bypass when the hose nozzle is shut off.  Cleverly designed, the bypass can allow the pump to agitate the syrup and mix it on the way to the yard, but provide enough pressure to a hose, to dispense the syrup as well.  An adjustable valve can be used to set the amount of bypass, or a pressure relief valve can be used.

Remember, syrup hardens and gums things up.  Never count on anything electrical being 100% reliable when syrup is around.  Small passages in a Pumptrol® or the diaphragm can block up, especially if care is not made to keep it above the syrup level in the design.

Turn off the power when you are not intending to pump syrup, or expect to come out and find it all on the ground some day or be leaving a trail behind you as you drive down the road.

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From Rich, another perspective...

You people make this syrup pumping game way too tough.

• 3-1/2 HP Briggs engine Cost $200.
• 3/4" bronze gear pump Cost $110.
• 2 pulleys, coupling, shaft, v-belt, etc. $60.
• Relief valve. $55.
• 60 foot pressure hose with nozzle $95.
• Misc. iron, bolts, etc. $25.

Total weight for this set up is about 50 to 55 pounds.  Length is 20 to 24" very easy to pick up & move from the truck to storage or what ever.  We use clear 3/4 EVA spray tubing for both suction & relief lines to & from poly supply tank on the trucks. 

As for our tank farm we use a 5 HP Briggs engine that drives a 1-1/2 honey pump ( Viking molasses pump ) with about a 6:1 reduction ratio. We run the engine at a fast idle with no problems. It takes less that 15 minutes to fill a 200 + gallon tank on the truck.  The plastic spray tubing is held in place with just hose clamps & this makes it a very simple & light weight unit to disconnect & remove from the truck. 500 gallon poly blem tanks are worth about $175. & 1500 gallon are worth $375. Not real tough to spend around $1000 bucks or so & have a real nice system that will hold half a tanker load of syrup.

Rich

Here's the cheap model Honda engine mounted on a blower.  It bolts up in place of a Briggs, runs on half the gas, makes half the noise, and costs the same.

This system is simple and cheap, and easy to build.  The major complaint is that B&S engines can be hard to start, and are noisy and smelly when running.  Using a Honda would be a huge improvement.  The racket is much less, and fuel economy is double, even using the cheap black Honda motors.

In our case, we preferred to have a system that runs only when the trigger is pulled and which can deliver a lot of syrup quickly.  When we were working hives in Spring, we would only need a shot of syrup every five minutes or so, and did not want the noise of a running engine.  Since we were feeding up to 4,500 hives, we spent some money for what we wanted, but for occasional use, and for those who don't mind the noise and smell of a gas engine, this is probably as cheap as you can get.

I'll give Rich the last word.

I can understand the noise & smell deal, but the new " emission " engines really have very little stink to them compared to the old ones from years back. Yes, the Honda engines are a little smoother but are not worth the darn for the near double the cost factor of the Briggs.  (Actually, the black Hondas are priced the same as B&S -- allen).  Most of the fuel tanks on these engine now a days will hold up to a gallon of gas. So they can run all day without a problem. The engine that is on the truck pump now is 8 years old & all that is ever done to it is change the spark plug in the spring & the oil & call it good for the year. If I recall correctly I did change the v-belt & love joy spider last year for the 1st time. We had an electric motor on the tank farm for a couple of years & found the gas engine deal to be less headache. Just my 2 cents worth, Allen.

By the way all of the gas engine we have usually start on the 1st or 2nd pull.

Rich

Good comments. 

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(This note came later). What kind of relief valve do you use? And, how many hours do you figure your unit has run? Tried to find the one that I use in the Granger web site but had no luck. How many hours has this unit run?????  Countless, 10 years old at least.  New plug in the spring & check the air cleaner and let 'er rip. Change the oil at least in the spring & then in the fall. I did find the cheaper Honda engine for $200. in the Northern catalog.  I will order one to give it a try.  Looks like I can save 8 to 10 pounds of weight also. By the time a man realizes that maybe his father was right, he usually has a son who thinks he's wrong. Charles Wadsworth Who & were in Iowa did you talk to that only had a 5% winter loss.  I would like to call him or E-Mail him.  Brian told me that some of the people who have ads for queens & brood in east Texas posted in the Bee Journal have refunded quite a bit of money to their customers as every thing is so far behind & there is no way they can fill all the orders for Queens & brood. Maple buds are starting to really swell & it should be near 60 today here. We have had well over 2 1/2" of rain in the last 2 weeks & it really soaked in the ground.  Not much run off at all. Got a new dog a few weeks back & can hardly wait to see if he likes to eat bees like the old one does!!!!!!!!!!! Let me know Rich. (I sent him the contact privately)  Still waiting for the details on the relief valve.  I think that was the original question, wasn't it? (This note came later yet). The valve is a Teel brand model #PO-72 or a# PO-73.   Pump is a Teel Model # P-775.  Seems bronze pumps are a better bet than the cast iron ones as I have seen corn syrup set in a cast pump over the winter & leave some nasty holes in the gear bores.  Rich I hope we have answered everyone's questions.