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Tuesday September
1st, 2009
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Wow! August was a long month, in this diary,
at least, with lots of
bee-related activity and comment on these pages. September may
be just as full, since I will be working on an extension job.
How much I write about that here remains to be seen. Come to
think of it, though, nothing is likely to change much, except I'll
be really busy, maybe too busy to write much. Somehow, though,
I seem to find time.
Jean left for home yesterday afternoon, and Jonathan
left
early this morning. We were up at 4:30 and had him at the
airport by 5:30 for his 6:05 flight to Toronto. From there, he
flies to Denver, then John Wayne, and should be home in Laguna Beach
by 2:30.
Sudbury airport is small and casual --
although the security is as stringent as any -- and if you get
there an hour before the first flight of the day, you are
practically the only person there. The desk staff show up
shortly, though.
The day he flew up here to Sudbury was his last day
employed with a company which has employed him for years. When
he gets back, he has several good job offers and will start work
again later this week or early next. Although the recession is
still biting and California is broke, seems his skills as an
application developer are in demand.

Of course, immediately after I said that the seasonal nectar flow trend is down, the gain yesterday
was the best since I began recording weights a week back.
Ellen says yesterday was
a hot day, 30 degrees, and that is right in the optimal
range, at least until the ground moisture gives out. You have to
wonder. If these splits are putting on around twenty pounds a
week at the tail end of the season, what is going on.
Nonetheless, I used always to leave a third on my hives until late
September or even early October in some yards, long after other
beekeepers had finished. The boxes were usually quite full.
Time to think about varroa again. The chart (left) is from a
talk at the
2009 Alberta Beekeepers convention by a Polish gentleman with a
very simple message: hit mites when they are vulnerable, and before
they can do harm. The jet fighters on the chart are zooming in
to destroy mites at the times he thinks optimal.
I was looking
back to 2004 and the mite loads that Medhat noticed then in my
hives at that time. Interesting to note that a little AFB
showed up in my Australian packages that year and none in the
overwintered Konas. Also interesting to note that the mite
levels appear to have been higher in the styrofoam hives.
Coincidence? Don't know. I am getting
interested in such things again and have all my styrofoam boxes full
of bees In fact the scale hives are styro and are performing
well. We'll have to do a mite survey and see.
In 2006 and 2007, I pretty well ignored the bees. I had pulled
some honey, but could not get it extracted. I counted on
friends, and that did not work out. I was also away most of
the time.
I split them in 2006, but did not wrap. In
2007, I just let them sit. By 2008, I was down to 3 and began
splitting back up to about ten.
This year I am up to 35 hives or so. My
current plan is to get the brood chambers reconditioned by using
them as supers this year as well as to draw some of the
foundation that has been sitting around for years. I'll
pull the unoccupied brood chambers from top and bottom at the
end of the season and store them for use while splitting next
year. I'll then winter in two or three boxes depending on
the colony's needs. Next year, I'll split
two or three ways in May, and hopefully in two again by the end
of July. Whether to raise queens, buy queens or get cells,
I have yet to decide. With 85% success each time, that
should yield (35 x 0.85) x 3 x (0.85) x 2 x (0.85) = 129
colonies. We'll see. There is a lot more work in 130
colonies than in 35, and the 35 I have are getting to be a bit
of work.
I smartened up this year. A few years back, I
split hives and mixed styro and wood boxes on the same stand. That
made it impossible to wrap in the fall. This year, I am
keeping wood with wood and styro with styro. I've made a few
exceptions when it comes to supers, though, since I ran out of
styrofoam boxes, and because the supers will come off before
wrapping. As for varroa treatment, I think I will
sample this fall, and likely drizzle oxalic again where indicated.
It should be interesting to see. I also am interested in
looking for AFB. I have not seen any, but there should be some
if these bees are not hygienic. The base stock is quite good,
but I have been letting them raise their own queens and not testing
for HYG.
I guess this is the test. All my
equipment has been exposed at one time or another and we know
there is a low background spore level, from the testing that
Beaverlodge did some years back. There is a limit to what
HYG can accomplish. I noticed the swarm that found the old
AFB stack somehow is not doing well, even if they are not
showing much active. Combs scaled with AFB are hard to
clean out, and infect larvae repeatedly until they are clean, so
bees hived on AFB scale have an uphill battle, no matter how
hygienic they are. That is why, at minimum, beekeepers
remove scaly comb no matter whether they use medication or
not.
I don't think much about tracheal anymore. I
am trusting that the breeders whose stock I use have done their
homework.
In
the US, that would be a crapshoot, but the stock in Canada
(and Kona AFAIK) has been more carefully selected.
It is settled. I'll be back in Alberta next Tuesday
night and at work on Thursday looking through hives in Southern
Alberta and determining the mite and disease levels as well as
appropriate responses.
 Those
bees are making a liar out of me. This the biggest gain yet!
23 pounds. That is 6 lbs per hive in 24 hrs. That would
be 180 lbs a month if it could continue.
Eric Mussen's summer newsletter came in just it and it dispelled any
doubts about missing the WAS meeting. Being a westerner, I
wondered if I should have gone, but from the report in the
newsletter, it sounded pretty lame. I had hoped the western
society would approach the eastern group in size and content, but so
far it does not seem to.
Wednesday September
2nd, 2009
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Subject: |
Re: Propolis conundrum |
|
From: |
allen |
|
Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology |
|
Date: |
Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:49:14 -0400 |
> In fact, we are being told now to recycle combs after 3 years
or so due to > the build-up of pathogens. These same combs are
generally darkened -- by the > painting of them with propolis by the
bees. So, the question is: does > propolis really help? If it does,
we are pitching out propolized combs. If > it doesn't...
I am glad you brought this up. I have been puzzled and a tiny bit
annoyed at the advice given so often -- to use as much new comb as
possible and throw away perfectly good combs. It is a pet peeve, in
fact.
In my experience, bees do some things well on new comb, and at
some times of year, but for wintering in the north, nothing beats
old comb. No matter what some respected beekeepers and researchers
say, in my experience, my bees do best overall on middle-aged and
older combs.
Bees are happy to raise brood in new comb, but prefer to store
honey in older, darker comb. That is the opposite to how we like do
things, since we want the nectar to be stored in unstained comb so
that the honey is white, and to use our older combs in the brood
nest, since we have them on hand, and too much foundation slows
build-up and cuts into production.
We did a few tests years back. See
http://honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/fdnvsdrawn.htm
and
http://honeybeeworld.com/diary/2000/diary040100.htm#ResearchDetails
After trying wintering on new comb a few times, we gave in and
follow Don Peer's advice (in the above links) to me when I was just
starting out. Even if the bees have been summering on new comb, we
make sure they winter on dark comb.
Also, we find that it is harder to get a hive up to proper
wintering weight on light comb -- around here, at least, and if we
do, the bees often just die for no apparent reason, even when
wintered on a beautiful perfect super of brand new comb full of
honey.
In my opinion, middle-aged darkened comb is a beekeepers best
asset, and it pains me to hear recommendations to destroy it. I can
understand that there is a need where coumaphos has been used, and
to a lesser extent where fluvalinate has been used, but isn't it the
same people making that recommendation who recommended using these
chemicals in the first place, and in a manner that was bound to
contaminate comb?
Chemical build-up in comb is an obvious reason for cycling older
combs out, but as for the build-up of disease in combs, I am not so
sure. For one thing, good bees should have some resistance to the
diseases, and below a threshold, exposure is likely harmless, and,
conceivably, even beneficial.
I see no need to destroy comb because of pathogen build-up. AFB,
possibly is an exception in some circumstances simply because the
scale is so hard for bees to remove. As you mention, though,
irradiation is a good option where practical.
We often see new comb of brood with lots of larvae missing,
particularly near the wires. An older comb beside it will be solid
with brood. That says something to me.
As a result, I really do not think the same advice applies in all
situations, and that the advice to destroy good combs is overly
simplistic..
> What is the point of throwing out good combs, if the rest of
the hive is > covered with all the same stuff? ...One would have to
study clean new > hives, versus old sticky ones, to determine
whether a clean environment is > really better or not
That would be a difficult study to control, for reasons discussed
above, but I think I have done the uncontrolled version and, ceteris
paribus, older is better in my country.
I can see the argument to be made that the young are raised in
the comb, and are imprisoned next to whatever is in the comb, while
the boxes and other parts -- even outer combs -- are more distant
and contact is more transitory. However, I think that as with many
things we assume about bees and beekeeping, these ideas are deduced
by logic performed on assumptions, rather than empirical, carefully
observed fact and, as such, very suspect until tested against
reality.
 Another
fine day for the bees in Swalwell -- a 25 lb, 24hr gain for the
four-hive pallet, and a 34 lb gain per hive over 10 days.
Swalwell is usually a poor bee pasture -- everyone always did better
than me -- but this year, our home yard is doing well in the late
season.
I find, too, that hives that are late building tend to finish up
well and these are spits.
Today, we picked up some flagstone to repair Mom's
front step and talked to a mason. I took a drive to the Rowing
Club to discuss windsurfer rentals, then we decided to drive to Pine
Hill after supper, so I can finish the shower project and we will
close up for the season.
Thursday September
3rd, 2009
September past:
2005,
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2000,
1999
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Today, I worked on the shower project. It took
me some time to get onto it. I had cleaned up and put
everything away and finding the tools and parts took time, as did
disassembling the temporary setup I did for the time that
others were here.
The weather here in Muskoka is perfect. Warm,
but not hot days and warm nights. Sun, no clouds and light
wind, and predicted to continue until after we leave.
 In
Alberta, Ellen says, "Hot again and extremely windy this
evening.........south east wind."
I can see that in the hive scale results. I
assume the wind has kept the bees down. Could be that the heat
is using up the moisture, too, but I would not have expected such a
sudden decline in one day from that. Wind is a more plausible
explanation IMO.
I have agreed to work with Medhat on the Bee Health
Program, and am headed home sooner than I had originally planned,
arriving next Tuesday and starting work on Thursday, a week from
today, with an expected completion date around the end of the month.
I look forward to seeing my buddies and looking into
hives around southern Alberta with them.
|
Subject: |
Re: Propolis conundrum |
|
From: |
allen |
|
Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> |
|
Date: |
Thu, 3 Sep 2009 04:16:01 -0400 |
> Uraguayan researchers also found that spraying an extract of
propolis > decreased the number of AFB spores in colonies.
Good subject for study IMO. I should think that results of spore
counts are dependant on the measurement method, though.
I wonder if they are reporting spore count -- live and dead -- or
just viable spores, and how they determined viability if that is the
case, since I should think that culturing spores would give
different results than a microscopic examination.
It has long been my contention that although AFB spores have been
observed to remain viable for long times and be very resistant to
heat, that time and environmental influences -- like heat,
atmosphere, chemical reactions, solar and other radiation, coating
with wax and propolis -- reduce their vitality over time.
Given that, in order to infect larvae sufficiently to cause what
we call AFB, a number (more than one) of spores must be in the right
place at the right time, and be able to germinate in the short time
before the window of opportunity closes. Too slow, and the
opportunity is gone AFAIK. (I don't know how a half-infected larva
would turn out).
In other words, even if AFB spores are weakened by any of those
factors -- time, heat, atmosphere, chemical reactions, solar and
other radiation, coating with wax and propolis -- and although they
may still be demonstrated to be viable in lab tests, the spores may
not be sufficiently viable to actually infect larvae effectively in
a real world hive situation, or may require greater numbers to
achieve infection, especially in less susceptible strains of bees.
> However, as Allen says, beekeepers have long found that a
supply of used > drawn combs are one's most valuable asset. Bees
clearly prefer to store > honey in dark comb above the brood.
I have always been amazed how southern beekeepers are able to
replace dead colonies and destroyed comb over a fairly short period
without apparent economic damage when the same losses would destroy
a northern beekeeper. Up north, we have problems replacing typical
normal 30% annual shrinkage in numbers without sacrificing crop.
It is quite typical for a northern beekeeper to buy 10% of the
operation's total numbers annually in package bees to compensate for
losses over the year. Although splitting can replace the annual
attrition, splitting sufficiently to replace the losses would burden
the operation excessively.
On the other hand, southern beekeepers, of course, sell those
packages and then go on to pollinate and make a crop. The bees they
sell are often surplus, and would be in the trees unless shaken and
sold.
Of course, too, southern farmers plant two or three crops a year
on the same acreage that a northern farmer would plant and harvest
only once.
|
Subject: |
Re: Propolis conundrum |
|
From: |
randy oliver |
|
Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> |
|
Date: |
Thu, 3 Sep 2009 08:11:04 -0700 |
>I wonder if they are reporting spore count -- live and dead --
or just viable spores
Just viable spores (from the honey) that started colonies on
Petri dishes.
> (I don't know how a half-infected larva would turn out).
Virtually every organism alive is "half-infected" by bacteria and
viruses, including bee larvae. Their immune system either eliminates
the infection, or keeps it in check (once infected, this response
lasts for the rest of the bee's life). So "half-infected" larvae
would appear normal.
Great page on your comb experiments, Allen. Thanks! I am very
much aware that the huge amount of comb that I am forced to draw
severely limits my honey crop. It is obvious when I compare the
difference in colony production when I actually have drawn comb to
super with.
In my own operation, we are considering shifting from nuc sales
and bulk honey sold wholesale to local honey production bottled and
sold retail. I'm tired of the driving, and the market is good for
anything "local." In order to produce serious honey, we will need to
build a stockpile of drawn combs. > > > > >One thing that confounds
the issue is that some years are so good that a > beekeeper can do
everything wrong and still get a crop and winter well. This > sets
the beekeeper up for future years of losses and puzzlement.
I always tell those wishing to begin a bee business that the
worst thing that can happen is to have a great year the first
year--it sets an unreasonable "standard" in one's mind.
This year was one of those exceptionally good years in my
location. And for a change, we actually managed to not drop behind
until the very end. Hence, my sons' venture into retail marketing of
a large local crop. We are not about to extrapolate for planning
purposes that we will see a year like this again!
Randy Oliver
|
Subject: |
Re: HMF in HFCS |
|
From: |
allen |
|
Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> |
|
Date: |
Wed, 2 Sep 2009 21:26:40 -0400 |
> I'm confused. Do I now have to dispose of the 2 drums of HFCS
that I have > left, or is there a proper way to store syrup?
I don't know how old or heated it is, but if it is not too bad,
feeding it in late spring or summer during dearth would probably not
cause economic adverse effects and could do some good.
The problems with HMF are worst when it is in the only feed
available and the bees are confined.
I have heard that the colour is an indicator, but maybe not
always. Clear and water-white is good. Murky and/or tinted is bad.
YMMV.
|
Subject: |
Re: Propolis conundrum |
|
From: |
allen |
|
Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> |
|
Date: |
Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:15:50 -0400 |
> I seem to recall postings from Tony in Norway that indicated a
very high > amount of comb replacement as a nosema control, and
think that Norway > could not be considered "southern" beekeeping.
Juanse's bees are so > southern that they could almost be considered
"northern" and because he > has a market for old comb (for raising
wax moth!) they are largely on new > comb, and seem to be healthier
I thought as a result.
I admit to being puzzled by these reports, along with others.
These reports and others of the sort plus the comments of some
researchers were the reason behind our experiments linked in my
previous post.
Although not definitive, our tests did prove to us what we had
been observing less formally over the years and what we had been
told (and did not want to believe). We measured the cost. Did you
take a look? See
http://honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/fdnvsdrawn.htm and
http://honeybeeworld.com/diary/2000/diary040100.htm#ResearchDetails
There is a high cost to more than a small amount of annual comb
replacement in our situation -- our country, our bees, our
management -- but apparently this is not universal -- or else the
beekeepers in question find that cost acceptable. Either that, or
perhaps they are not aware of the difference. I suppose that there
is also the possibility that their disease or chemical problems are
so serious that the advantages that come from extreme comb
replacement outweigh the costs, or that their management is much
better than mine.
I have to say, though, that disease and mites have seldom been
more than a slight nuisance to me, and that when they have, like the
time we had 30% chalkbrood measured in some Australian packages, it
was from genetic problems and the cure was obvious -- change the
bees, not the comb. Nosema has never been a problem for me that I
could detect (an example at
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/beescience/default.htm ), and
I have looked hard, although I suspect it would be if I put pressure
on my bees to draw more than 10% new comb a year and tried to winter
on it
In beekeeping, I find that the problems of one year follow into
the next and the success of one year also follows and builds over
time. If you get a disease, it takes several years to clean it up;
if you have an episode of malnutrition, it takes more than a year to
fully recover. This is perhaps due to our locale and short season. I
see the southerners seem to recover much more quickly (Or do they
really? Is their superior climate a mask and able to compensate for
the multitude of problems many cause by their management style?).
I should mention that I do not scrape frames or boxes any more
than I have to in order to prevent crushing bees when I work, and
everything is waxed up and propolized. I keep several sheets of
foundation in every brood chamber, at the outside in case the bees
get crowded enough to need to mass there, and sometimes insert a
frame in the centre at the right moment (a risky maneuver for the
inexperienced), and often insert foundation into supers, but I make
sure, other than the one case, that the bees are not forced to draw
foundation. I ran the world's largest Ross Rounds operation at one
time, so it is not that I don't know how to get bees to draw comb.
One thing that confounds the issue is that some years are so good
that a beekeeper can do everything wrong and still get a crop and
winter well. This sets the beekeeper up for future years of losses
and puzzlement. Successive failures accumulate problems in
combs.
It is not the great years, but those other, challenging years
that tell the tale as to whether a technique is wise or not for any
given beekeeper.
Right
now, I am listening to "Wild West Radio - High Cholesterol,
Low Protein Radio - 95.4% Saturated Fat" on
Winamp. I enjoy
country music done well, and this is not your run of the mill
country music. This
Internet radio station plays stuff you'll never hear
elsewhere. Very clever lyrics with incisive social
commentary, not just the same old cheatin' and hurtin' songs,
and not all country...
Friday September
4th, 2009
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2000,
1999
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This the lowest gain, yet. It was hot today, but windy.
Ellen says, "Still windy and cooler. Hard to get a reading again
today because the wind blows the balance beam around!".
Cooler? Only 30 degrees (C). What causes the drop in
activity? Heat? Dryness? Difficulty measuring?
Hard to say, but quite a surprise. Wind is my guess.
WInds over 20 KPH make flying difficult.
It was 24 here in Muskoka today, and that is warm
enough for me. John Pat had John H. and me over for burgers this
evening. In later afternoon, we took a spin in his powerboat,
out to the lake for a swim. I decided that I really don't
enjoy speedboats anymore. Sailing has spoiled me. I
don't enjoy the pounding over the chop, the noise and the wind.
I like going slowly and looking at things along the way.
I worked on the bathroom again today and the
end is coming into sight.
Alberta
weather continues hot. Should be good for the work I have
planned, visiting beekeepers later next week.
|
Subject: |
Re: Propolis conundrum |
|
From: |
allen |
|
Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> |
|
Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:03:57 -0400 |
Does anyone know what travel stain is?
Also, when hives are robbed, there is a sort of 'mud' left on the
entrance holes.
Anyone know what that is?
I don't know what the former is. Could be propolis, but the
latter does not appear to be.
|
Subject: |
Re: Propolis conundrum |
|
From: |
deknow |
|
Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> |
|
Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 2009 17:28:36 GMT |
>Does anyone know what travel stain is?
i thought it was adhesive tarsal secretions by workers, and
anything that might stick to them...which is probably anything that
is or gets into the hive.
http://books.google.com/books?id=p-ii-nVqFCIC&pg=PA138&lpg=PA138&dq=bee+foot+secretions+gland&source=bl&ots=8mHva1l2-J&sig=QhtFGydbGhiuORVzYfLa9fEX2LA&hl=en&ei=QE2hSq-wJNud8Qav2ZzjDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=bee%20foot%20secretions%20gland&f=false
(This passage)


|
Subject: |
Re: Propolis conundrum |
|
From: |
allen |
|
Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> |
|
Date: |
Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:24:21 -0400 |
>i thought it was adhesive tarsal secretions by workers, and
anything that might stick to them...which is probably anything that
is or gets into the hive.
Thanks. That is the best answer yet, and good reference, too.
The reference says it is colourless, though, so what is the stain
material? ..."probably anything that is or gets into the hive"?
Saturday September
5th, 2009
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 Ellen
says, "Still breezy but the bees have been working despite the
wind".
I spent the day working on the shower again.
I'm nearly done. Another 3 or 4 hours...
Here is an interesting sequence of brood photos. These
photos, taken about ten days apart, illustrate darkening of the comb
as well as the effect of the metal in the wiring on larvae in new
comb on wired wax foundation. They also show the initial brood area
and how it is out of phase with the outer ring, laid later. At any
given time each area is empty, then capped, then empty, then capped,
while to he other is the opposite. Also, failed cells in each area
fall out of phase and stay out of phase as well or are filled with
nectar and/or pollen. This would seem to be a good queen with good
bees on a flow. It is obvious that any cell that fails to go a full
cycle is cleaned and laid or filled again immediately.
|
Subject: |
Re: How to approach a Masal
selection? |
|
From: |
allen |
|
Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> |
|
Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 2009 03:10:26 -0400 |
> I have for each of my yard the hive number and for each hive
the number of > frames covered by bees. I can dispose right now -
cause of a good winter - > close to 30% of my colonies... The
distribution for each yard resembles a > Weibull rather than a Gauss
> (normal) distribution.
As I understand it, depending on the parameters, a Weibul
distribution can "mimic the behavior of other statistical
distributions such as the normal and the exponential". Thus, I think
we need a better description before we understand what you see.
> I think I should discard those colonies that are 1 standard
distribution > down the average. But ...
From this, I assume that you are thinking to cull on just this
one criterion. To me that is surprising, since size is only one
selection criterion, and not necessarily a meaningful one -- unless
it is linked to other characteristics you seek.
My understanding is that you are approaching your spring season
and that these are overwintered bees. Unless your major goal is
splitting, and I think if you have a surplus of bees, it is not,
then large populations at this date could actually indicate
undesirable properties by many standards. You may wish to keep the
medium ones -- or conceivably even the small ones -- depending on
their condition otherwise, the timing of your season and other
factors like winter feed consumption.
Personally, I would not use this one characteristic as a
selector. I would look for clean bottom boards (no chalk), disease
history, and other indicators of health, manageability and
productivity.
Moreover, I would have marked the best performers in each yard
for the previous season and consider keeping them regardless of size
if they were disease-free and not vicious.
|
Subject: |
Re: How to approach a Masal
selection? |
|
From: |
allen |
|
Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> |
|
Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 2009 08:43:12 -0400 |
> Allen can you further explain this statement? what are you
thinking on? > .. then large populations at this date could actually
indicate undesirable > properties by many standards
I don't know where to start. It seems fairly obvious to me, and
we have discussed the various aspects of this question here fairly
recently, and also going back into BEE-L antiquity.
You may recall that Bob is an advocate of prolific bees and does
not mind the feed and drug costs, while others prefer stock that is
more conservative and generally more hardy. I have also written that
hive strength is one of my (several) spring selection criteria and
why.
Without knowing more about your genetics, average yearly losses,
and goals, as well as flow dates, and pollination dates, etc.,
anything I write would be very general, and very time-consuming.
All I can say is that you have a problem many would love to have
and I think your problem is that you are feeding too much pollen
substitute. I have some friends who had the same problem after
feeding supplement for several springs -- too many bees. It was a
huge problem since they had to split, and they had a lot of
extracting to do every summer.
So they quit feeding patties and the problem went away the next
year. The year after, they were buying a lot of package bees, and
fighting mysterious bee diseases again.
My advice: Stop feeding artificial feeds. Your bees are doing far
too well.
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Subject: |
Re: How to approach a Masal
selection? |
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From: |
allen |
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Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> |
|
Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 2009 09:11:11 -0400 |
> I think I should discard those colonies that are 1 standard
distribution > down the average. But ...
Unfortunately your chart got a bit gibbled up coming through the
email, and I see no data for yard three.
From what I can see, though, and without plotting the data, your
distribution is not too far off the normal distribution one might
expect to see. I doubt that I would find the chart very useful
anyhow -- for practical purposes. For interest and reflection, it
may carry insights.
For other than for curiosity purposes, such an analysis to me
serves no purpose. The real work has to be done in the yards, and
unless you run your operation as an intellectual exercise primarily,
the question is how to best resolve the problem most quickly,
neatly, and efficiently, with due consideration for any hidden
ramifications.
Many beekeepers faced with your problem would just go out and
double or triple up everything that looks weak and take away the
extra boxes in a few weeks, then requeen those hives if they appear
to need it. That is probably what I would do, but I have never had
the problem.
IF, however, you are doing queen selection and breeding from the
total population, you may be concerned about keeping poor genetics
in the pool and may wish to ensure that drones are not raised in
poor colonies.
This is a complex question, and I think that calculating
distributions is a bit of overkill in dealing with a real beeyard
situation
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Subject: |
Re: How to approach a Masal
selection? |
|
From: |
allen |
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Reply-To: |
Informed Discussion of
Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <BEE-L@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM> |
|
Date: |
Sat, 5 Sep 2009 22:10:04 -0400 |
> I started from stock of four different origins threey ears
ago... I have all the lines availables in Chile, italians
(cordovans, starline), yugos, primosky, buckfast, many locals
ecotypes, etc , etc and I have been freely mixing them up... Darker
ones are a bit slower in building up but catch up quite nicely with
the lighter ones. Darkers are better in managing their reserves.
I think this accounts for some of the variation. Luck may account
for the rest. BY selecting for size, you may select for one type
over others.
>Finally I believe this is going to be a very swarming season. We
are under El Niño influence, with lost of rain and high temperature.
Bloom are some 15 to 20 days ahead past year and buds looks
promising.
I was wondering about that. I was also wondering how you woulld
cull. Would you sell bees, or kill them, or as I suggested, combine
them.
>I was thinking that by culling a given amount of the smaller
ones I was going to improve the winterability trait of my stock and
at the same time reduce the amount of hives now before the swarming
season.
I think that you are probably correct in that assumption,
although I am not sure how you improve on the success you have had.
Moreover that success is causing you problems.
Maybe you need to shake bees into packages and sell package bees.
Is there a market for them?
At any rate, I don't think you need to figure standard
deviations. It appears you need to get rid of some hives, and the
weak ones in each yard are the obvious choice.
Sunday September
6th, 2009
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Write me
 Ellen
says, "Still gaining tho' the weather is cooling and it is still
breezy. Zippy found a skunk this morning when I was nail raking the
ash pile at the quonset. She has had several treatments of the
special skunk deodorizer formula but there is still a faint skunky
smell around her. Quiet here.........except for the occasional
irritated skunk".
Calculating, I see that each hive on the scale has gained 43 lbs
since we started weighing. I wondered when I was finishing up
supering half an hour before leaving for my flight east two weeks
ago, if I was wasting my time. Apparently not, and the season
is not over yet.
 I just about finished the bathroom at Pine Hill
-- I have a little trim to add --
closed up, then drove back to Sudbury. Tomorrow I wrap my boat
and Tuesday I fly home. Wednesday after lunch I have to be in
Edmonton for training and briefing.
Monday September
7th, 2009
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Today, Mom and I visited Linda in the morning. Her daughter,
Sarah and a friend are up for the weekend. My boat was tied up
there, so I drove the van and trailer over to the ramp nearby and
left it there, catching a ride with Mom the rest of the way.
After the visit, I was going to motor over to the ramp and pulled
the boat out, , but the day was so perfect that I decided to go
sailing instead. I covered pretty well the whole lake and then
pulled the boat onto the trailer at the end of the day. I had
planned to tarp it today, but there is always tomorrow. I have
the morning only, though, since I lift off at 3:30 for home
  Apparently
it was cooler today at home. Ellen reports the dog smells less
like skunk. Also, the dog has gotten used to measuring the
hives at 5 every afternoon and goes to get Ellen at 4:45. The rest
of the week is cooler, too (see my home area forecast at the right)
which is fine for me as long as we don't get frost, since I will be
working on bees. There is risk of frost in the forecast.
I
saw my contract today. I am described as a volunteer.
Tomorrow night, I'll be back home. My bees need some
attention. I have been feeding patties constantly and plan to
go a couple more rounds before quitting for the fall. Some
research seems to indicate that it is the decline in pollen incoming
that triggers the cutback in brood and the raising if winter bees.
Since these are splits and some are fairly recent, I figure several
extra weeks of brood will build populations. I also have to decide
whether to extract. Ugghhh!
Tuesday September 8th, 2009
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Write me I had set today aside to
clean up my van and to get my boat ready for winter. I had
planned to tarp the boat again, but decided that it is already dirty
enough that I have to do a major cleaning in spring and that the
hatches are water-tight. I decided to make sure it is level
and won't accumulate water in the stern seam if it leaks, or on the
deck, where the ice could pry hatches enough to let water in.
Mom drove me to the airport and I had a pleasant flight to Toronto,
then to Calgary. Mike met me at the airport and I was home by
ten. The scale reached the end of the beam and the
small slider is being pressed into service. Looks like 1206,
when the first scale is taken as reading 201.
 
Looks as if the production is on the upswing again. There is a
risk of frost tonight, though. Looks as if the wind
was the culprit for the bad day. That would seem to indicate
that locations where the bees are able to forage on windy days might
have an advantage. If the bees can get out of the hive and
have a protected forage area like a woods or a valley, they may be
able to work on windy days.
I wonder what the bee losses are on windy days
compared to calm days.
Wednesday September 9th, 2009
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Write me Today I drove to Edmonton to
get my instructions and pick up the van and supplies for the next
few weeks.
As mentioned previously, I have agreed to help out
inspecting hives in Southern Alberta this fall. I also
mentioned that my comments here in that regard will be very limited.
Unless someone I visit explicitly tells me that he or she would like
something we observed or something he or she is doing shared with
the world, my activities are regarded as confidential.
I'll still have some things to write about, though, I am sure.
 Seeing
as I am home, I did not get a scale hive picture emailed today.
I am told, though that the gain was five pounds, so I guess
that the frost missed us last night. I reactivated
the
Honey Bee World Forum quite a while ago, but nobody seems to
be posting there. Is it locked or something? Has anyone
tried it? I was able to post. |